amyjenner: May 1, 2019, 12:14am
49 year old female with voracious hunger. She is about 60 lbs overweight, sallow, soft, spongy flesh. Tongue is
pale, puffy, scalloped with little red dots and thin coat. Under a lot of stress with her work just now and hating
being there until the school year ends (she is a teacher). She doesn’t sleep well. Has a hard time getting herself to
settle down and once asleep has vivid dreaming. Currently, her appetite is huge. Her skin is not dry, though she
says it is drier as she is getting older. I diagnosed this as SP xs and supplemented LI. She didn’t really settle during
the treatment. She was calm but alert and her mind was focused on trying to figure out this crazy appetite that is
suddenly out of control. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
dcvalley: May 1, 2019, 2:12am
See what happens, not passing out with relaxation is not failure. Often you will get good clinical benefit even if
they are somewhat alert
As long as I don’t seem to aggravate them, I am at the lets see what happens stage, usually I am pleased with the
outcome.
amyjenner: May 1, 2019, 1:20pm
Thanks for the encouragement. I’m at the same stage!
michaelmax: May 2, 2019, 2:16am
amyjenner:
She didn’t really settle during the treatment. She was calm but alert and her mind was focused on trying to
figure out this crazy appetite that is suddenly out of control. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Hi @amyjenner
It’s nice when they settle. The patient likes it and we like it because we feel like really did something. But as
@dcvalley points out, watch to see what the effects of the treatment are.
I like your idea of +LI to dry that excess taiyin Spleen dampness.26/01/2024, 12:14Voracious hunger – Sa’am Clinical Questions – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/voracious-hunger/172/print2/4
I’m also wondering because she’s agitated, has a hard time falling asleep and all that hatred if perhaps there is
some GB fire that is driving the hunger. You might consider +PC to bring that down.
Also, was there any kind of incident, life change or “something” that happened right before the appetite when
berserk?
Tobydaly1: May 4, 2019, 7:38pm
michaelmax:
Also, was there any kind of incident, life change or “something” that happened right before the appetite when
berserk?
I’m curious about this as well…
amyjenner: May 5, 2019, 8:15pm
She has had a rough couple of years. She was teaching in China and got sick with a respiratory illness that caused
her to return to Maine. She had gained a bunch of weight while in China. She initially came to treatment because
she had a 5.5 inch fibroid that was easily palpable and she was trying to shrink on her own with diet. She ended up
having surgery for it. She has a lot of regret and grief at having never had children or partnered. And, now, she has
been living and teaching out on one of the islands which is an hour plus ferry ride. They got a new principal last
year who decided she didn’t care for my patients style or respect the subject (drama) and basically made life hellish
enough that my px was thinking about quitting. When contract time came up in April, hers wasn’t renewed. So, I
think it has just been over the top stress and grief over an extended period of time rather than a single event. She
has a family property to move to on the main land and she has decided to take a year off, so once the school year is
over, things should settle down.
KristinWisgirda: May 6, 2019, 3:31pm
A case Toby shared is brought to mind. Excuse me T for sharing it or relating it incorrectly: An obese, sweaty
woman with eyes like *shining diamonds *presents with post knee replacement knee pain and swelling along the
Spleen channel, long standing diarrhea, low back pain L2-L5.
All of the patient’s symptoms respond fantastically after one treatment of LI+ and SI+. After a repeat of the first
treatment, the patient is afflicted with debilitating anxiety and frantic rumination but her other symptoms continue
to improve wonderfully. The 3rd treatment is bilateral LI+ which increases the anxiety even more.
For the fourth session Toby remembers her super bright eyes and treats unilateral Liver+ which immediately calms
the patient.
With @amyjenner’s case I’m curious if the voracious appetite might be a stressed system trying to settle itself.
Making a list of all the channels that could be involved based on her presentation will be helpful to prepare for her26/01/2024, 12:14Voracious hunger – Sa’am Clinical Questions – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/voracious-hunger/172/print3/4
next appointment. It sounds like her response to stress is the biggest thing in her life right now.
Thanks for sharing. Please let us know what happens!
amyjenner: May 6, 2019, 6:19pm
Right , I was going back and for the between LI and PC. Whether to go for the body type or the anxiety/disturbed
sleep piece. I could even make a case for PC with LIV since she is single mindedly focused on the appetite part and
not sleeping really well. I am trying to stick to the 1 channel at a time directive. I also have in my notes that if there
is a clear body type indication, that supersedes the acute. I’m not sure that is right now that I think about it. Anyone
know what I might have heard about that? I so appreciate the feedback.
KristinWisgirda: May 6, 2019, 11:53pm
amyjenner:
I also have in my notes that if there is a clear body type indication, that supersedes the acute.
My understanding on body type as a guiding factor is when the primary pathology is a Metal/Earth imbalance. For
instance if there is diarrhea, you would be more likely, but not definitely, Sp+ for a dry skinny person and LI+ for a
sweaty obese person.
The art of this system is figuring out the primary pathology. Even when a patient presents with a clear body type, it
might not be the grossest aspect of the presentation.
Tobydaly1: May 7, 2019, 6:56pm
Great memory Kristen! That’s a case I shared in Seattle.
michaelmax: May 8, 2019, 3:12am
KristinWisgirda:
The art of this system is figuring out the primary pathology. Even when a patient presents with a clear body
type, it might not be the grossest aspect of the presentation.
This system is seductive. On first glance…wow…things really fall into place. And then as I’ve used it in clinic,
while often things easily fall into place, there are plenty of times when “the usual thing” does not work. I think that26/01/2024, 12:14Voracious hunger – Sa’am Clinical Questions – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/voracious-hunger/172/print4/4
is where the nuance of application of the principles really comes into play.
And often we will try the first thing that seems right. very natural to do that. But when things don’t go the way we
expect, then we get to work on taking the basic principles to a deeper level.
ngmatthews: October 4, 2021, 5:15pm
My impression of the appetite is that she is trying to calm and ground herself by eating. Kind of an exaggerated
self-soothing activity aimed to dull her emotional pain. So I guess I would look to the Pc/Lv kind of ideas for her,
rather than being pulled in by the old TCM notions that a strong appetite has necessarily to do with Spleen or Earth
something.
amyjenner: May 10, 2019, 12:26am
I think that is right, that she is self calming with the food. The LI treatment did not help and she missed her apt this
week. I will see her this weekend and try the Pc/Liv idea
thanks for the feedback
amyjenner: May 12, 2019, 11:50pm
I treated her today with Pc rt and Liv lft. She had an emotional release with a few tears and felt quiet inside.
Donley: May 13, 2019, 3:21am
An emotional release sounds like something that will help her move forward into the person she wants to be.