Daniel: August 16, 2019, 7:42pm
In the assignment of convexities to ‘Gall Bladder’ . . . would we include in that any reported sensation of pressure
(e.g. eye pressure, sinus pressure, pressure in a leg, abdominal pressure, pressure in the chest) even if visible
convexity is not obviously present?
Jeffrey: August 16, 2019, 9:59pm
Interesting that you mention that D, I think of most of those issues ie. pressure to be concave unless the
presentation bulges or pushes out in some manner, ie haietal hernia, stomach pushing into diaphragm is convex,
therefore GBxs.
I just treated a patient with eye pressure, she was clearly SJxs
Tx#1) LV
reduced eye pressure significantly (second cc.)
Reduced sensitivity to light only mildly ( first cc.)
I guess time and next treatment will tell more.
Hopefully others chime in on this one
Thanks
Jeffrey
Daniel: August 16, 2019, 11:39pm
Hi Jeffrey
I think of Pressure as mostly ‘pushing out’. No?
I mean I suppose something being concave can be due to a ‘pulling in’ which is a kind of pressure.
But I Think of concavities as more often due to a sinking in or a collapsing in.
So, the rationale for my question was that its my sense that pressure is mostly a pushing out
and I would presume the convexity that the Sa’Am system as taught here associates with GB Excess would be due
to a ‘pushing out’ dynamic.
those are my thoughts and my thinking . . .
Daniel26/01/2024, 11:30The Finer Aspects of Convexity . . – Sa’am Clinical Questions – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/the-finer-aspects-of-convexity/498/print2/6
Jeffrey: August 16, 2019, 11:49pm
I can’t disagree w you Daniel!!
Perhaps it’s unfortunate that I can see this from both sides, when in reality, we need to make a decision. Like I said,
hopefully someone else chimes in on this one. So far I can only go by what I’ve been told and what I’ve seen
clinically. That said, I need to hear more and see more in clinic. Looking forward to some more resolution on this
and many other issues .
Thank you
KristinWisgirda: August 18, 2019, 10:09pm
Daniel:
I think of Pressure as mostly ‘pushing out’. No?
Generally, my interpretation of pressure is too much of something in a space. Could be qi , blood, fluids, heat, cold.
It doesn’t have a directionality of pushing out and doesn’t confirm a GB excess in my understanding or experience.
Jeffrey: August 19, 2019, 1:26pm
geeeezz, I had been considering this and was leaning toward convex now…of course your description Kristin
creates even more possibilities in a dynamic model…Duh. This of course adds for clarity and confusion at the
same time.
Jeffrey: August 19, 2019, 4:14pm
SO MANY ROADS
this is my trickiest patient in a decade!
case study
73 yr female
dry in/out Li xs, lots of resourses Lu xs, hx of cancer,sleep issues(medicated), other previous hospitalization, deep
grief from loss of partner, weakened /depleted/frail from chronic symtoms
cc:1) dizzy/ vertigo ENT and audiologist suggest very diff case form their side, double vertigo
2) haietal hernia>pain,burning,reflux,Severe
3) anxiety, general to gripping
4) eye pressure
5) stomach pain
6) diarrhea/ very loose to watery
7) always cold
This woman is(was) a major mover and shaker for many benevolent foundations, on many boards.26/01/2024, 11:30The Finer Aspects of Convexity . . – Sa’am Clinical Questions – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/the-finer-aspects-of-convexity/498/print3/6
meticulous, OCD, gets things done, will not take no for an answer, always busy, productive, kind, stoic,intelligent,
very polite, orderly, calm>a wonderful mix of +Li,+Sj,+P
signs: She has no varicosities/spider veins on legs, pale ans nearly perfect, some loss of love for self, never had
childeren ( could not), K4-6 area not as pretty as the rest of her legs, sl cracks, face is sunken and depleted, cant say
bad bone structure SI xs.
details,perfectionist,blames self,OCD, hyperfocused, meticulous, dislikes light since not feeling well, pale, anxious,
cold inside not to touch SJ xs
contemplative, sheilded( i think due to stoic),no desire to control others LV xs
diplomat,never aggressive, sinking in-shoulders sl forward, reflective Pxs
haeital hernia, eyepressure-not sure if this is convex due to recent post suggesting more option, insomnia(ambien
15 years) GBxs?
never bored, gets stuff done, tends to be correct LI xs
lots of resources,LU xs
interesting GB/P dynamic
interesting SJ/LV dynamic
I thought I was gonna nail this case in thee steps w herbal med. First step backfired as she couldnt keep much
down/no assimilation. So i went very gentle with herbal med moving forward.(herbal medicine /diagnosis is my
strong suit) so i aready became hesitant to say the least. I was so Saam new that i didnt start there. some combos
for stomach pain, nausea,dizzy were performed.
P6&LI 11(dizzy) P6&SP3&ST43(st pain) these helped with nausea, st pain ,sl with dizzy. But i wasnt satisfied and
I’m an all in kinda folk and want to treat with Saam. I performed +SP3x,+P,+SI+LV,+SJ,+H,+ST reminder; patient
is extremely frail/weak
i didnt understand the 1-2x for weak pts at that point, and now see some errors made.
long and sort of it is anxiety much better,nausea too. more dizzy after +LV then subsided didnt like the effect later.P
not much new benefit. SJ helped and she felt better. I disputed over repeating it and or +H as she is always cold.
That agitated her reflux and sl nausea but not till next day.
+ST a couple days later made a huge change. Needles in, eye pressure better,stomach pain better,mood and general
feeling better, shakiness better still upper haietal hernia burning, dizzy less without moving. i pulled the needles
and we chatted for 5 min. She then felt nausea to dry heave feelings,legs shaking…once that stopped I added a
strong P6, nausea better. bilateral strong ST36
eased the St pain that came with the upsurge of nausea. She chilled out in the recliner for 20 min. felt significantly
better than when she arrived,PHEW!! Again I can see some errors, and yet not a clear strategy. My most difficult (
for me) in the past decade. I commonly have difficult cases.This one is rocking me. For some reason she trusts me
implicitly. The reason I put this case in this thread is Haietal hernia burning (concave/convex or??) same for eye
pressure/dizzy as they go together with her.
michaelmax: August 20, 2019, 2:28am
Daniel:
I Think of concavities as more often due to a sinking in or a collapsing in.
So, the rationale for my question was that its my sense that pressure is mostly a pushing out26/01/2024, 11:30The Finer Aspects of Convexity . . – Sa’am Clinical Questions – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/the-finer-aspects-of-convexity/498/print4/6
and I would presume the convexity that the Sa’Am system as taught here associates with GB Excess would be
due to a ‘pushing out’ dynamic.
HA! This reminds me of how Toby says there is “internal” and “external” but he (and his teacher) refuses to define
just what or where each is. Is the dampness on the surface or interior… yesss… and we have to see how it all fits in
the unique picture of or patient.
So this has me thinking there are aspects of concave and convex and they differ to some degree depending on
which side you are viewing it from.
That being said, in general I think of concave as there being some kind of deficiency, there is a falling in as there is
a kind of emptiness. While convex is due to some excess that is exerting pressure and causing a bulge.
michaelmax: August 20, 2019, 2:39am
Hi @Jeffrey
Well, the herbalist in me want to know what Rx you used, as her reactions can help to clarify the DX.
I’m curious to know what you mean by:
interesting GB/P
interesting SJ/LV
Are they both very high or low? What’s got your attention?
This case is a good reminder that just treating one side and seeing what happens is a good idea because she’s frail.
And because she’s frail, I’d consider +LU to give her some qi. Especially as her reaction of the +ST resulted in dry
heaves and feeling shaky. And yet, her dizziness got better.
yeah, this is a tough one.
Jeffrey: August 20, 2019, 3:21am
michaelmax:
’m curious to know what you mean by:
interesting GB/P
interesting SJ/LV
Are they both very high or low? What’s got your attention?
By this Michael I mean she has a lot of chips in each side of each camp, or at least a strong dynamic of related
symptoms and or traits, curious
What speaks to me… conviction and weariness, hope and fear.
She wants to be the above pairs in balance.
Eye pressure/ dizziness26/01/2024, 11:30The Finer Aspects of Convexity . . – Sa’am Clinical Questions – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/the-finer-aspects-of-convexity/498/print5/6
Haietal burning
Cold, frequent urine
That’s what is the loudest
In terms of everpresent symtoms that ebb and flood, but rarely relieved for long
Jeffrey #11August 20, 2019, 3:49am
“I’d consider +LU to give her some qi. Especially as her reaction of the +ST resulted in dry heaves and feeling
shaky. And yet, her dizziness got better.
yeah, this is a tough one.” Mmax
+ST while retained brought relief to eye pressure, brought dizziness down a notch, no nausea or st pain. Heat in
chest released, though Haietal burning remained alone. Felt/ looked better. It was 5-10 min after needles were
removed when the reaction happened…
Wrong move? Or part of the unlayering of pathology?
Ryan_Gallagher: August 21, 2019, 7:27pm
Daniel:
In the assignment of convexities to ‘Gall Bladder’ . . . would we include in that any reported sensation of
pressure (e.g. eye pressure, sinus pressure, pressure in a leg, abdominal pressure, pressure in the chest) even if
visible convexity is not obviously present?
I’ve found it interesting that twice recently I’ve supplemented PC in cases of GB excess and the patient came back
to say that their bloating significantly decreased after the treatment…even though that wasn’t really a part of my
intention. Seems like +PC assisted in counter-balancing an outward-directed GI pressure in these cases. This
potency of this system continues to amaze me!
Joanne_Tait: August 26, 2019, 2:42am
Interesting and a lot going on with her. I am wondering about supplementing Kidney for her. She’s frail and older
and it seems her qi is a bit scattered? I’m also thinking based on her age and her recent grief and the fact that she
said she’s got issues with self love, that may be what she needs. You mentioned some loss of love for self and her
K4-6 area not as “pretty” as the rest of her legs. Maybe she needs some consolidation? Just a thought.
1 Like26/01/2024, 11:30The Finer Aspects of Convexity . . – Sa’am Clinical Questions – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/the-finer-aspects-of-convexity/498/print6/6
Jeffrey: August 26, 2019, 6:14pm
@Joanne_Tait [quote=“Joanne_Tait, post:13, topic:498”]
I am wondering about supplementing Kidney for her. She’s frail and older and it seems her qi is a bit scattered? I’m
also thinking based on her age and her recent grief and the fact that she said she’s got issues with self love, that
may be what she needs. You mentioned some loss of love for self and her K4-6 area not as “pretty” as the rest of
her legs.
[/quote] I can see you point Joanne and have considered +K for the same reasons. I will add that on second check,
she does have a nice fleshy medial heel, no cracks, just supple wrinkles. +K is still on the table for sure. I added
more to your inquiry on the other thread too. Thanks for your feedback. I’m not outa the woods yet.