Adina_Kletzel: November 27, 2019, 10:55am
If someone has terrible thirst and a burning and dry mouth but who feels cold and like to drink warm fluids, how
would you help relieve this thirst and dry mouth?
When I did tonify spleen it caused their head to feel foggy and unfocused. Tonify liver helps a little with the thirst
but not with the dry and burning mouth and lips and the relief from the thirst does not last more than a couple of
days. Tonify LU causes a post nasal drip to appear and tonify St makes them feel nauseous, bloated and very
unsettled. I dont want to do tonify Bl because they are already cold.
Any other suggestions?
Below is the Saam excess chart for reference
Bl don’t feel enough love for others +7 frequent urination +7 cold +7
SJ overly attuned to details around her +7 controlling +7 very critical of self +8
LU food is sluggish in going down +7
SI low self confidence +8 not into clothes and makeup +7
Kid bloating – ST qi not moving well +8 fertile +8
LI never bored or lazy +9 thirsty, dry mouth, dry skin +8
St LU 10 a bit deflated +5 tired +816/01/2024, 12:04Terrible Thirst and a burning and dry mouth – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/terrible-thirst-and-a-burning-and-dry-mouth/757/print2/3
KristinWisgirda: November 27, 2019, 12:40pm
Herbally this case brings to mind gan cao gan jiang tang. Frozen middle prevents steaming up of fluids into the
mouth.
With Saam, I would consider H+ or SI+. Looks like she was’t able to process adding fluids directly with Sp+ and
Lung+. SI+, being a mix of fire and water, is a way to test her tolerance to adding heat to her system, along with
some moisture. If that helps somewhat without any negatives, and more warmth is still needed, you could then try
H+.
Sj+ would be a milder way to introduce heat into her system but she is already so SJ excess.
Adina_Kletzel:
Kid bloating – ST qi not moving well +8 fertile +8
I’m not sure why you would put “bloating- St qi not moving well +8” under kidney excess, if that is what this
means. Taking that off the chart, looks like the K/SI axis is pretty even. If she had blood stasis signs, I might lean
more toward SI+.
Steve Clavey has a trick for determine if dry mouth is from cold in the stomach that is really useful. If warming
Ren12 relieves the mouth symptoms, then this confirms cold in the stomach. I’m not sure if he used direct or
indirect moxa to test. I have used a tiger warmer until Ren12 is nice and pink and toasty.
rappeports: November 27, 2019, 2:49pm
Kristin,Would you consider LV/SJ here also as it seems like heat above and cold below. I love the GCGJT
possibility or other formulas that treat this. Also makes me think of Dr Yu Ministerial Fire formulas. Sally
KristinWisgirda: November 27, 2019, 3:50pm
Adina_Kletzel:
Tonify liver helps a little with the thirst but not with the dry and burning mouth and lips and the relief from the
thirst does not last more than a couple of days.
Adina tried Liver+ without great results.
Li zhong tang could be used too but I like the clear simplicity of GCGJT which could be tried in small doses. This
is a best guess based on the limitations of a case study on the internet.
It could be a gan cao xie xin tang picture too but that has gcgjt in it too.16/01/2024, 12:04Terrible Thirst and a burning and dry mouth – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/terrible-thirst-and-a-burning-and-dry-mouth/757/print3/3
Adina_Kletzel: November 28, 2019, 7:16am
rappeports:
Would you consider LV/SJ here also as it seems like heat above and cold below. I love the GCGJT possibility
or other formulas that treat this. Also makes me think of Dr Yu Ministerial Fire formulas.
It really does seem like heat above and cold below with ministerial fire flaring up and leaving the MW cold and
deficient. I have been trying to figure out how exactly to work with this phenomenon in Saam acupuncture. It
seems that tonify LIv does have a positive affect on the situation but not enough and not lasting enough, which
baffles me somewhat. Tonify Ht warms her up but exacerbates the thirst and dryness – especially at night. I am
wondering how far Saam acupuncture can take this case and whether this is just a case that requires herbs.
KristinWisgirda: November 29, 2019, 5:15pm
Given that Heart+ by itself clearly isn’t the way to go, I am more interested in the SI/K axis. Did you try SI+ or
K+?
A more fleshed out case presentation might help us see your patient better. There is something missing