turiyahill: August 16, 2020, 10:47pm
Newbie here so please forgive my initial ignorance. But if I have a patient with early stage Tai Yang catching
cold,with chill, tight upper back, averse to wind,etc…Gui Zhi Tang appropriate…would I supplement Uriinary
Bladder Excess with Heart/Double Fire/LV1,Ht1,Ki10,Ht3 ? Because this is the energetic quality I want to add to
the patient.? Thank you!
KristinWisgirda: August 17, 2020, 12:53am
Hi Turiya,
Welcome to the forum! Newbie questions are always welcome.
turiyahill:
would I supplement Uriinary Bladder Excess with Heart/
That is a reasonable assumption and I would love to tell you that is that easy and uncomplicated. But it isn’t. You
might end up using UB+ !!! for such a picture, unless the patient is deeply cold.
Please refer to these resources:
2 complimentary discussions relevant to this topic can be found here: https://www.saambenevolentsociety.org/online-classes/
Scroll to near the bottom to find
Using Saam for Acute Illness
Considering Acupuncture for COVID 19.
For your question, a quick search on the search function of this forum (upper right hand corner) came up with this
case that demonstrates the effect of UB+ having a warming effect in acute illness.
BL + and beginning of cold
I wanted to share an experience I’ve had using Sa’am on myself. I was outside yesterday and it was windy and
the temperatures were a bit low. So I spent some time in the cold wind and then was soaked by the rain. Today
I felt my throat manifest itself a little bit, and the upper back as well. So I decided to do BL + as Toby said it
would release the exterior and was great in these types of situations. During the session I felt a slight warmth in
the face, the upper back and throat sensations …
Get used to having your mind blown.
We love cases here and writing up cases is a great learning tool to sharpen your Saam thinking. If you would like to
post a case, please check out this resource:23/01/2024, 11:41TaiYang Stage illness – Sa’am Clinical Questions – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/taiyang-stage-illness/1226/print2/4
Case Study Format
Here is a proposal for case a case study format for our forum. I welcome any and all feedback. The goals are to
help you sharpen your Saam diagnostic skills, help your readers see your patient and stimulate conversation
that will helps us grow as Saam practitioners. When presented with the idea of a case study format/intake sheet,
this was Toby’s response: Great idea, basically the Saam diagnosis is interested in everything. I think the Shen
Kuo quote from the lecture is a good starting framew…
michaelmax: August 18, 2020, 12:21am
HI @turiyahill
Welcome to the Saam discussion forum. And as @KristinWisgirda so well points out—
KristinWisgirda:
Get used to having your mind blown.
Our mental models do get a bit of a work out here, and you have touched on one that I’m still puzzling through.
I agree, for a person presenting with a Gui Zhi Tang pattern. you would think “heat to the exterior and harmonize
the ring and Wei”
It seems really upside down to think of using the Tai Yang UB channel (double cold) to treat a issue where there
some cold invasion. Again, I’m still puzzling this one through. What I have to say is not something I got from
Toby, but rather my own (in process) thoughts on the situation.
I was talking with Brenda Hood on the podcast. She’s got a pretty deep background in Chinese and the classics.
There’s a line in the Shang Han Lun
?????,??,????????
The Tai Yang treats illness where there is a floating pulse, headache and stiffness at the back of the neck and an
aversion to cold.
I was wondering about this and in a conversation with Brenda after she’d taken the Saam class I asked how it was
that if the UB has the cold of water and the cold of being Tai Yang how could it treat “cold.” and her response (as I
recall) was that the Tai Yang brings what is capable of attending to the exterior and resolving cold.
Again, I’m still putting these puzzle pieces together. So from one perspective we can see the Tai Yang as being
cold, but from another we can understand the Tai Yang as being involved in attending to the exterior. And since it is
the “great yang” it also carries the ability of the yang qi to resolve an external cold situation.
I realize I’m mixing Saam with my thoughts about herbal medicine, especially the Shang Han tradition.
Your question here is one of the most difficult to answer. Can you bring us something easier next time
Seriously, thanks so much for engaging this material and looking forward to our future conversations.23/01/2024, 11:41TaiYang Stage illness – Sa’am Clinical Questions – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/taiyang-stage-illness/1226/print3/4
KristinWisgirda: August 18, 2020, 12:49am
Sometimes channel, sometimes quality.
This is the mantra to keep repeating while you contemplate possible treatment approaches.
There is lots to contemplate in this simple statement.
michaelmax: August 18, 2020, 7:57pm
KristinWisgirda:
Sometimes channel, sometimes quality.
Clearly a Zen Koan, or Toby is trying to demolish the Corpus Callosum of our brains.
Tobydaly1: August 19, 2020, 7:32pm
“In conclusion, one should also note that similar to the five phase elements, the six conformations do not only refer
to physiological functions and their pathological potential. They are associated with specific body layers, where the
respective forces of qi transformation are most active. Starting on the outside, the depth level is as follows: Taiyang
(surface), shaoyang (half inside, half outside), yangming (inside), taiyin (deeper inside), shaoyin (even deeper
inside), jueyin (deepest inside layer). Syndromes of the yang layers tend to symptomatically express as heat on the
surface, since there still is enough energy to express that way, while the yin syndromes are generally the chronic
yang deficient diseases that are deeply withdrawn inside the body and tend to not manifest as obviously at the
surface, such as cancer.”
Classical Chinese Medicine: An Introduction to the Foundational Concepts and Political Circumstance of an
Ancient Science
Heiner Fruehauf
turiyahill: August 28, 2020, 6:14pm
Michael. Thanks for your thoughtful response and particularly Brenda’s thoughts. I was thinking just a moment ago
what happens when we shower in really cold water or finish a warm shower with ice cold water and how the chi23/01/2024, 11:41TaiYang Stage illness – Sa’am Clinical Questions – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/taiyang-stage-illness/1226/print4/4
and blood and physiology seem to so immediately respond…with a rushing to the surface. And I am still working
with the notion of the Qualities listed on the treatment chart and Toby saying ” The qualities are what you will be
adding to your patient…“and with UB we are adding cold water. I think this makes sense to me now with respect to
Brenda’s words ” …bringing what is capable of attending to the exterior…”.
amyjenner: August 29, 2020, 4:29pm
I have been thinking of it as the Tai Yang BL getting stuck from its up and out movement at the surface. Cold
happens to be the obstructing thing but if you think about it like a spit ball in a straw, blasting through the BL
channel, giving it energy to complete its up and out, it make sense. At least that is how I have been holding it in my
imagination
michaelmax: August 30, 2020, 9:14pm
amyjenner:
I have been thinking of it as the Tai Yang BL getting stuck from its up and out movement at the surface.
Yes, the Taiyang moves up and out… it “opens” and so anything we can do to help with that that function should
be helpful when you’re trying to “clear the surface.”
Sometimes channel. Sometimes quality.
While I do think of the UB as cold water. I also think of it as having the function of using the yang qi to open
outwards. In the case of treating “taiyang conditions”… it’s that up and outward motion we are looking for. (and
maybe add some ge gen tang… Sorry, I could not help myself)