Adina_Kletzel: July 29, 2020, 8:20am
HI,
I have a 36 year old male patient with right sided pain. He is married with 4 little kids. A couple of times a week
his whole right side gets clogged up. It starts in the back of his head behind his ear and travels down his neck,
shoulder, arm, hand, stomach and thigh. It feels clogged and painful and he has to meditate, drink, and move in
order for the clog to be released. In his meditation he imagines the qi moving through and opening up.
The pain spans over a couple of meridians – GB, SJ, Kid (chest and stomach), and LI (specifically by LI 11).
I have used PC, SJ, Liv, SI, and LU.
All have helped lessen the frequency and intensity but the pain still returns.
I wanted to really begin to focus on the fact that the pain is right sided.
I tonified Lu twice (not in a row) because even though he can pay his bills he is not wealthy and has had quite a
few unlucky challenges in the past year (fire burned down his home, paycut at his job, difficult marriage )
He felt amazing with LU +, great energy, clear mind, good self growth and the pain was reduced but not gone.
The catch is that he has a really puffed out and firm Lu 10 area.
So does that mean that I should consider St+ even though he felt great with LU +? Can someone be St excess
and LU excess?
And why would LU + work so well in other areas for him even though LU 10 is so puffed out?
Just to give an idea of wet/dry:
His mouth, lips, and skin are very dry. He has loose/sticky stools. Does not sweat a lot. He is thirsty and finds that
drinking a lot of water helps keep his system flowing and lowers his pain.
And rest of Saam chart:
Ht loves so much +6 gets hot and heat stays above 7+
Kid strong sexual drive +8, symmetrical +7, fertile +8 pain on right side of body 9+
SI giving himself away to wife and kids +7
TW attention to outside +8, hot above +7, blood xu +7
Liv night depression +8
LU loose stools +7 dry lips, mouth, and skin +8, doesn t sweat much+8 seems to make money easily (but doesn t
have a lot of money) +7
GB tendency to get angry 6+, trouble sleeping 6+
LI bones very strong +8. Skinny and dry skin +6
SJ heat above and weaker below 6+
Thanks
Daniel: July 29, 2020, 1:19pm
Hi Adina. Thanks for the Case! As the stand in for Kristin, I will do my best to offer some thoughts.
These cases are always the toughest – mixed signs with some leaning towards one pole of a pair and some leaning
towards the other pole! My understanding is that the advice in such cases is to first try elsewhere in the Sa Am
system – which I see you have done . . . with your treatments addressing Liver-SanJiao as well as PC and SI.15/01/2024, 12:22St excess with puffed out LU 10? – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/st-excess-with-puffed-out-lu-10/1187/print2/5
On the Lu-LI axis . . . of course there is always the matter of toggling . Yes, so much right-sidedness points
strongly to that axis. He has a lot of external dryness and also, I think a key on the money matter is not that he
doesnt have a lot of money but that he seems to make money easily . My understanding of this from a Sa Am
perspective is that it is not about how much money (resources) a person does or does not have but about how
quickly and easily it seems to flow when they need it. So if it really does flow for him, even though at any time he
doesn t have much, then yes, resources flow well and even though Lung supplementation had him feeling great,
there are signs of Lung Excess (what is his torso like – you say he is skinny – but is there some fullness in the
ribcage or Lung 1-2 area?). A Stomach supplementation might be the ticket as it would bring fluids to his external
dryness and address the right.
On the other hand, if he is really skinny and dry through and through . . . . consider a Spleen supplementation!
Where is he on the couch potato – industrious and busy spectrum??
And then, with the heat, the Heart excess . . . it could be that over the long run, all the heat , all the Love – has
served to dry things up (fluids) – check his substernal area . . . tight – loose? warm – cool? Perhaps a UB
supplementation would cool things down and then open up some space for more enduring effects from addressing
Lung and Stomach. Without that, it could well be that the fluid benefits of any Lung (or Spleen) supplementation is
going to be perpetually short-lived.
From what I see – and if you still have sessions to work with him – I d consider
Spleen +
Bladder +
Stomach +
not necessarily in that order – just my thoughts.
Let us know what happens.
Daniel
KristinWisgirda: July 31, 2020, 5:30pm
I second everything @Daniel has to say. Thanks @Daniel!
Adina_Kletzel: August 1, 2020, 9:38pm
HI Daniel,
Thanks for you response.
It is interesting to think that one can even toggle LU-St.
It seems like it should be that either a person is damp on the inside or dry on the inside and the same for the
outside. But I guess as with many other symptoms, clinic shows that a person can be both damp and dry on the
inside and damp and dry on the outside.15/01/2024, 12:22St excess with puffed out LU 10? – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/st-excess-with-puffed-out-lu-10/1187/print3/5
This is something that I did not consider before. I just assumed that a person was Either Lu excess OR St excess.
But that is not necessarily the case.
I think in this particular clients case he has some St excess and some LU excess and would probably benefit from
tonifying both at different times.
So the answer to my original question is that someone can have St excess while still having a puffed out LU 10
area.
Daniel:
but is there some fullness in the ribcage or Lung 1-2 area?)
Is fullness in Lung 1-2 area also a Saam sign for possible LUng excess?
KristinWisgirda: August 2, 2020, 2:58pm
Adina_Kletzel:
Is fullness in Lung 1-2 area also a Saam sign for possible LUng excess?
Fullness in Lung 1-2 area doesn t point to Lung excess like an inflated chest/ribcage or thenar eminence. Instead it
is considered a garden variety channel change, meaning Lung or Stomach excesses can be considered.
Daniel #6August 2, 2020, 3:02pm
I have patients who have large inflated ribcages and hunched forward shoulders with sunken withered Lu1-2 areas
– a combination I find interesting in this context.15/01/2024, 12:22St excess with puffed out LU 10? – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/st-excess-with-puffed-out-lu-10/1187/print4/5
KristinWisgirda: August 2, 2020, 3:19pm
Adina_Kletzel:
as with many other symptoms, clinic shows that a person can be both damp and dry on the inside and damp and
dry on the outside.
I also have a number of patients who have benefited from LI+ and SP+.
We are critters that are constantly changing subject to environments that are always changing. It is important to
stay open to all options to determine the next best move.
Adina_Kletzel: August 4, 2020, 10:55am
KristinWisgirda:
like an inflated chest/ribcage
So an inflated rib cage also points to LU excess? Is the ribcage part of the chest area?
I am sorry to be picking at this I just dont have a great picture of what exactly an inflated chest is?
Is there any way to upload some pictures?
THanks
KristinWisgirda: August 4, 2020, 2:07pm
There is a discussion of inflated chests aka large rib cages here.
The Exclusive Significance of Inflated Chest . .
Would you consider a very inflated chest body type on its own to be a big weighting factor towards Lung
Excess in a patient (if there are no other particularly strong Lung Excess signs that you can see or find but the
chest inflation is really very pronounced)?
Start comparing the sizes of your patients ribcages and you will start to notice that some people have narrow
ribcages and/or sunken and some people have broad ribcages.
You might notice a broadness in the shoulders because the rib cage is so large.
Most opera singers, male and female, have large ribcages independent of their weight though stereotypically they
tend to be fat too.
Steve Buscemi, our Stomach excess poster man, has a nice example of a narrow ribcage in contrast to the opera
singer Lung excess.15/01/2024, 12:22St excess with puffed out LU 10? – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/st-excess-with-puffed-out-lu-10/1187/print5/5
Feel free to upload pictures of different chests and we can look at them together.
Adina_Kletzel: August 5, 2020, 8:41pm
KristinWisgirda:
There is a discussion of inflated chests aka large rib cages here.
Okay so inflated chest=large ribcage?
Is that where I need to be looking?
Cuz I thought an inflated chest = area CV 17 to CV 22.
Is that incorrect?
KristinWisgirda: August 5, 2020, 1:34pm
Adina_Kletzel:
Cuz I thought an inflated chest = area CV 17 and CV 22.
This is incorrect.
Adina_Kletzel:
inflated chest=large ribcage
This is correct.