Adina_Kletzel: October 12, 2020, 9:29am
In abdominal diagnosis a soft spongy abdomen is a sign for spleen deficiency. Is this also true in Saam. If someone
has a soft spongy abdomen is it a sign that they may need Sp+ (assuming there is also dryness in and out?).
Or do we see it as opposite? Is a soft spongy abdomen a sign of dampness in Saam?
I am asking because I have a client who is LI excess – thin, thirsty, dry skin, deep crack down middle of tongue,
and loves to be busy but her lower abdomen is SO soft and spongy so I am trying to understand this symptom and
determine if it pushes me more toward SP+ or would it push me away from SP+?
THanks
Daniel: October 12, 2020, 10:16am
My thoughts are that it depends on at what level and in what layer the sponginess is located? If it is located
precisely in the flesh beneath the skin – then I think that qualifies at wetness on the inside just like it would
anywhere on the body and that feeds directly into almost gem level Sa Am diagnostics in terms of its significance
for the Sa Am filter and its interpretability in the Sa Am system. If there it is not at all just beneath the skin in the
flesh and in fact, there is average or less than average flesh there and its more a matter of the muscular level being
absent – or – beyond that – if it is a matter of the actual interior of the abdomen (inside the abdominal wall) being
empty – then we are into signs and symptoms that are not doubt important but harder to feed clearly into the gem
level precise Sa Am filters and we get into crossover interpretations between either TCM or Japanese
acupuncture and Sa Am which certainly Toby has encouraged – but clearly as a lower tier of assessment than the
pure, gem level Sa Am signs and symptoms . . . . .
Adina_Kletzel: October 12, 2020, 12:15pm
Thank-you so much for your response.
I am having trouble differentiating between the two type of soft mushy abdomen that you are discussing.
My clients abdomen is soft, mushy, no form, and you can sink your hand down into nothingness below – no
resistance at all. It feels like the damp is right under the skin, but its kind of hard to tell because the whole area is
mush with no form. So would that be more the interior dampness type that you are referring to?
She did have 4 pregnancies and has some stretch marks intertwined into the whole area as well.
The rest of her body is markedly firm – she is long, skinny, her back is tight and hard and her shoulders are very
tight and hard.
I m just trying to figure out how much weight this abdomen has against a back drop of dryness in the rest of the
body.12/01/2024, 11:41Soft and mushy lower abdomen – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/soft-and-mushy-lower-abdomen/1326/print2/3
KristinWisgirda: October 12, 2020, 3:22pm
Adina_Kletzel:
If someone has a soft spongy abdomen is it a sign that they may need Sp+ (assuming there is also dryness in
and out?).
Or do we see it as opposite? Is a soft spongy abdomen a sign of dampness in Saam?
It is better to look at the presentation for what it is. To me, soft and spongy doesn t say wet or dry per se. Soft says
deficient as it is a kind of laxity. That laxity can be a lack of consolidation or a lack of density. Spongy says too
loose which points me to the same lack of consolidation or density.
If soft, spongy feels watery, then yes there is dampness.
I can note how much flesh/tissue there is. Too little tissue points to more dryness for Saam purposes.
When looking at these aspects of the presentation for what they are, I then have to ask if these qualities are a
primary disease factor or can be explained by some other aspect of the presentation or body function. Similarly, I
have to ask how these aspects relate to the patient s chief complaints.
Have fun figuring it all out! Clinic is hard.
Daniel: October 13, 2020, 5:55pm
KristinWisgirda:
That laxity can be a lack of consolidation or a lack of density
Hi Kristin
so for lack of consolidation – I presume we would think first of Kidney +.
for the lack of density, would you be thinking of Liv+?
(of course – all other things considered!! – just wondering)12/01/2024, 11:41Soft and mushy lower abdomen – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/soft-and-mushy-lower-abdomen/1326/print3/3
KristinWisgirda: October 13, 2020, 6:12pm
Yes, and for consolidation we might also think of the cold of UB+ especially if there is heat or the presentation fits
otherwise.
Both Liv+ and LI+ densify in their own way, LI if dryness is needed and Liver if the structuring nourishment of
blood is needed.
Daniel: October 15, 2020, 9:34am
KristinWisgirda:
the structuring nourishment of blood is needed
your way with words is awesome Kristin!