sfink: October 11, 2019, 4:23pm
Hi there, I’m a bit in a time pinch this morning and don’t have the time to write out a proper case study format –
which I hope to do over the next few days. But in the meantime, I would like to understand better Sa’am treatment
for cancer. In particular, do you avoid +SI because it is too moving, do you avoid tonifying the channels where the
tumors are? I would think tonifying PC may be helpful to balance the aggressive nature of growing tumors, but this
patient has tumors on the PC and Lung. She also has lots of fear but runs extremely warm, so would this be a
situation where tonifying the Heart and Liver meridians would be appropriate? Thank you in advance for your
thoughts, and please excuse the limited information I am providing.
KristinWisgirda: October 11, 2019, 4:36pm
There is no one-size-fits-all treatment for anything in Saam.
For cancer the main consideration is that the tendency to get cancer or develop masses is a sign of Kidney excess-
too much consolidation. But even that consideration has to be held in context of the patient’s overall environment
the day of the treatment.
sfink:
She also has lots of fear
In previous threads, there are discussions about anxiety being a possible manifestation of any of the 12 channel
excesses. Similarly, fear can describe a spectrum of states. UB excess fear is frozen terror that creates a
hypofunctioning, curled up in the corner or, at least, deer in the headlights presentation.
sfink: October 15, 2019, 12:55am
Thanks Kristin. Here’s a more thorough write up.
67 year old woman
Chief complaint: lung cancer with small tumor in mediastinum. last PET scan showed slight increase growth.
Second complaint: atrial fibrillation – increasing in frequency. 1-2 times weekly. triggers – stress, and overdoing it,
although sometimes no known trigger
· first noticed by Doctor after surgery to remove left lower lung, although patient had no a-fib symptoms at that
time.25/01/2024, 11:33Sa’am and Cancer – Sa’am Clinical Questions – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/saam-and-cancer/676/print2/5
Third chief complaint – neuropathy in feet. side effect from medication to limit cancer growth. feet feel like they
are in a tight glove. can feel icy.
Appearance and demeanor: average facial symmetry. caretaker +9. introvert – +6 . polite -+7. generous, not worried
about money +6. often wheezy and short of breath +8
Lifestyle: Former teacher. finds it difficult to prioritize self care +8
Body morphology and flesh quality: Tall, overweight +3; droopy flesh with swollen thick lower legs.
Skin Quality: severely dry +10
Body Temp: runs warm +8
GI: fine.
Respiratory: asthmatic. often wheezy+8
Sleep: hard to fall asleep because of neuropathy +7 wakes frequently and hard to fall back asleep +5
Emotions: grief and sadness though rarely expressed +5; tends to neglect her own needs so that others can be cared
for +7. fear regarding cancer +5. frustration with physical limitations+8 uncomfortable expressing anger +7
Urination: tends to get UTIs because of vaginal dryness +5
Gyn: hysterectomy
Other Body: Hip replacement – some sensitivtiy along left GB channel +3
Tongue: small body, pale, dry fur.
Excess Presentations:
Heart: runs warm. atrial fib +9, frequent UTIs?? (not sure about putting this here, but there is a warm sensation and
inflammation) +4
UB: fear of mortality +3 frequent UTIs – +4
GB: pain along GB channel +3
P: lack of expressing anger +7. cancer in PC?
SJ: very aware of those around her +6
Liver: introvert +5
Lung: damp inside/dry outside +9. Good resources +9. Lung cancer+10. asthma+10
Stomach: none
LI: none
Spleen: none.25/01/2024, 11:33Sa’am and Cancer – Sa’am Clinical Questions – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/saam-and-cancer/676/print3/5
SI: puts others needs before her own+7
K: tumors?
The Grossest Thing(s) in the Room: growing tumors & atrial fibrillation
Main treatment ideas: St+ UB+
Other treatment ideas: Ki+ GB+
Treatments 1 & 2 – St+ on right
· very relaxed. maybe slight improvement in left neuropathy. No change with a-fib.
Sa’am and Can
KristinWisgirda #4October 15, 2019, 5:54pm
Thanks for the case.
Here is some feedback that might help your Saam thinking.
sfink:
The Grossest Thing(s) in the Room: growing tumors & atrial fibrillation
The grossest thing is really an invitation to attend to your actual experience of the patient as opposed to the chief
complaint though sometimes they may overlap. Since you can’t see the tumors and she might not be having a-fib
episodes in your office, what really stands out as really true to you above and beyond all the mix of signs and
symptoms? What helps you understand her ecology?
Some suggestions about symptom analysis:
Where is the neuropathy on her feet- channels (and their counterbalancers)?
Cold feet + warm body= heat above/cold below ?? SJ excess or mixed hot and cold (K excess, SI excess)
sfink:
SJ: very aware of those around her +6
Liver: introvert +5
SJ excesses are often introverts because they are easily overwhelmed by their acute outward focus. Liver excesses
might be introverts because they don’t care to interact outwardly because they aren’t perceiving or because their
impolite ways aren’t received well. You also had politeness +7 which may or may not be the same as very aware of
others as +6.
sfink:25/01/2024, 11:33Sa’am and Cancer – Sa’am Clinical Questions – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/saam-and-cancer/676/print4/5
wheezy and short of breath +8
GB excess??
sfink:
tends to neglect her own needs so that others can be cared for +7.
How much is this neglect of her own needs versus Heart excess love for others? Given her rapid heart beats and
warmth, it is something to consider.
sfink:
P: lack of expressing anger +7. cancer in PC?
I don’t know if you can equate P with mediastinum, but if you do, then you have to put cancer in the mediastinum
under GB excess? too.
sfink:
vaginal dryness +5
is an internal dryness sign. You can put that under LI and ST excess.
Even if it doesn’t seem immediately relevant, it is good to put each symptom in a slot to fill out the picture. Even
things like pale tongue=??SJ excess. That might remind you to look at the color of her face too. I doubt she has a
fresh and super healthy complexion. Is she pale, red, dark, etc? This info might help weight her picture differently
for you.
sfink: October 15, 2019, 11:55pm
Thanks so much for taking the time to walk me through this Kristin. I very much appreciate it.
sfink: October 23, 2019, 12:05am
Just wanted to follow up with this case. Patient came in last week having intense muscle cramps and feeling very
wheezy. The wheezing was very dry. And it has been very dry outside as well. As her skin is always super dry, I
decided to treat her with +Sp. She had one of those deep rests that exudes as “yes!”. Today I saw her and she had a
great week with no atrial fib. I guess she is drier inside than I had expected – due to her overweight stature. I’m still
curious though…especially along the Kidney/SI spectrum. If a cancer patient is Kidney excess – can you safely25/01/2024, 11:33Sa’am and Cancer – Sa’am Clinical Questions – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/saam-and-cancer/676/print5/5
tonify the SI or if a cancer patient is SI excess can you safely tonify Kidney? I guess my concern is about the
possibility of spreading the cancer by treating SI, or consolidating the tumor by tonifying Kidney.
KristinWisgirda: October 23, 2019, 8:03pm
Great job for looking at your patient closely and discerning internal/external dryness, even though her internal
picture is missed damp/dry.
sfink:
And it has been very dry outside as well.
Environmental exposures are also important to keep in mind.
sfink:
I guess my concern is about the possibility of spreading the cancer by treating SI, or consolidating the tumor by
tonifying Kidney.
Cancer cells are circulating through her blood all the time. Whether or not they take hold is a matter of the quality
of her internal environment. SI+ is not a worry at all for spreading cancer.
While the consolidation of K+ could theoretically consolidate a tumor or any kind of phlegm/blood stasis, it isn’t
totally contraindicated if her system on the whole lacks consolidation and she is very debilitated.You would want
to see a really strong SI+ presentation to warrant using Kidney. It doesn’t sound like she needs Kidney + now and
that there are plenty of other systems to work on.
sfink: October 24, 2019, 11:11pm
Thank you Kristin. This is very helpful