sweiz: October 27, 2020, 11:40am
Hi all,
I was just reviewing the advanced Saam video and had a question. This is in regard to the woman with extreme
pain from an IUD on Saturday afternoon, the first case of the afternoon.
It seems like it was assumed that the PID meant heat. Some people suggested supplementing LI to help drain
toxins out of the body and others assumed damp or dampheat because of the “infection.”
I’ve treated a lot of PID that is actually cold and certainly lots of “inflammation” that is cold. I am wondering then
if, with Saam, do we assume heat with any “infection” or “inflammation?” All the focus on heat seemed weird to
me as there were no signs of heat…just a western diagnosis of PID. Toby ended up treating double SI, which is
double fire and didn’t do things to clear heat or damp but he also seemed to think that the clear heat ideas were
reasonable.
Any thoughts or experience?
KristinWisgirda: November 29, 2020, 2:09pm
Hi Sharon,
I am so glad you brought this subject up.
sweiz:
I am wondering then if, with Saam, do we assume heat with any “infection” or “inflammation?”
No.
sweiz:
All the focus on heat seemed weird to me as there were no signs of heat…just a western diagnosis of PID.
Weird to me too. I get uncomfortable when case discussions jump to conclusions based on western diagnoses rather
than sticking to what is actually known about the patient according to our medicine’s evaluation. This can make it
seem like the Saam tradition makes the same assumptions about western diagnoses and gives them clinical weight.
This is not my understanding of the tradition which is solidly based on the channel qualities that can be observed
by the practitioner and/or reported by the patient. The biggest mistake made by new Saam practitioners is to make
assumptions about western diagnoses and then to give them clinical weight.
The problem with Toby’s bare bones case presentations is that they leave too much room for the imagination. The
“what if” scenarios are then entertained and take attention away from the real lesson of the actual case.10/01/2024, 13:32PID is always heat, dampheat, toxin? – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/pid-is-always-heat-dampheat-toxin/1359/print2/3
sweiz:
Toby ended up treating double SI, which is double fire and didn’t do things to clear heat or damp
SI is Yang Fire + Taiyang Cold Water. Both Kidney and SI excess can manifest in symptoms of mixed hot and cold.
The Taiyang Cold Water aspect of supplementing SI can address heat symptoms. I often find it effective when the
overconsolidation of K excess/blood stagnation is creating heat symptoms. The dynamic movement aspect of SI
supplementing can also be brought to bear on cases of tenacious damp and phlegm, adjunctive to the more drying
treatments such as LI+, ST+, Lung+. Of course, we always want to see that the SI/K excess balance is tipped more
to the side of K excess when treating hot conditions or using it adjunctively to move fluids.
sweiz: December 1, 2020, 1:57pm
Hi Kristin and thank you for responding to this as I thought it had gotten lost in the ethers. In the class I found that
there was a way the language being used implied that infection = heat and or toxicity with some treatment
suggestions that went along with this. Although the treatment he gave did not reflect this, I kept waiting for him to
address that tendency to conflate. When he didn’t it really made me wonder if he conflates them. It sounds like you
are saying he does not necessarily and generally stays with the actual presentation rather than the western
diagnosis. Is that correct?
KristinWisgirda: December 1, 2020, 8:52pm
sweiz:
made me wonder if he conflates them. It sounds like you are saying he does not necessarily and generally stays
with the actual presentation rather than the western diagnosis. Is that correct?
Yes. What I have seen of Toby’s practice is that he follows the tradition and gives clinical weight to the actual
patient presentation and really no clinical weight to western diagnosis. In teaching he might entertain possibilities
brought up by western diagnosis in a theoretical way but this is not the way he practices.
I brought up your question about this particular case discussion and Toby acknowledged that is unfortunate that
students might be left thinking that infection=heat in Saam- not his intention.
2 Likes10/01/2024, 13:32PID is always heat, dampheat, toxin? – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/pid-is-always-heat-dampheat-toxin/1359/print3/3
Daniel: December 3, 2020, 3:58am
Oh that word ‘inflammation’ – its overuse and misinterpretation is so widespread.
michaelmax: December 4, 2020, 4:13pm
Agreed, it is a western term that can take us down the wrong path. We need to use our Chinese medicine eyes. As
@sweiz so clearly points out, the “inflammation” can be cold. We have unpack what our patients actually mean
when they say “inflammation.”