Adina_Kletzel: April 26, 2021, 8:38am
HI,
I have been using .25X15 Seirin needles on the JIng well points.
I have been thinking that I should go up to the .30X15 for the jing wells.
Have others found this to be more effective?
And if yes which are the most ‘comfortable’ brand of needles in this size?
Also – does anyone use .30X30 for jing wells? And if yes do they go in and stay in well?
And one last question – Should the jing wells be stimulated clockwise or counter clock wise like the other points or
is there no need for that in the jing well points?
Thanks
Daniel: April 26, 2021, 2:30pm
Hi Adina
for over a year now, I have been using Dong Bang 0.35 on all jing well points
and its been no problem
my candid suggestion . . . ‘just do it’.
Adina_Kletzel: April 26, 2021, 3:14pm
Thanks
Do you use .35X15 or .35X30?
And if you are using .35X30 do they stay in well? Points like Ht 9 or Bl 67 are so small I would think they would
fall right out if they are not X15.
Daniel: April 26, 2021, 7:40pm
Hi Adina . . . actually, I am using 0.35 x 40
its not a problem – because we are needling very flat, oblique to the skin and not vertical at all, we are able, I find,
to insert with considerable depth even at jingwells so the needles stay in no problem at all.
I LOVE the Dong Bang needles I am using (DB108) – they are not available here – only from Korean suppliers but
I find there are many Korean suppliers on ebay I can order from and they have all be excellent.08/01/2024, 14:20Needling JIng well points – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/needling-jing-well-points/1556/print2/4
Adina_Kletzel: April 26, 2021, 8:05pm
Wow! I can’t believe you are using .35X40! I actually have the dong bang as well and I like them also but I don’t
find that I am going in that deep even with the oblique insertion. I don’t think that size needle would stay in for me.
I wish I could see how you insert the needle. Especially with points like Ht 9 , BL 67, PC 9 which have so little
space to work with.
Is there any way to give me a bit of a verbal description of how you get deep into those points?
Thank-you so much. I appreciate your guidance.
Daniel #6April 26, 2021, 9:52pm
Hi Adina . . . hmmmm . . . not sure how to describe my insertion. Yes, even those points, UB 67, PC 9, HT 9 . . .
I’ve had no issues with the needles staying in – I mean sure , the odd one falls out, but very rarely. The only thing I
can think of is that needling very very obliquely is perhaps key . . that way, the insertion is really entering the skin
and threading a bit perhaps just under the skin either with or against the channel flow. I tend to do my insertions
quickly and strongly with no hesitation. And I have whole repertoire of clinical banter around the insertion if it
hurts that helps with patient discomfort or stress almost every time. Perhaps you are too hesitant / nervous? I do
also think a key is being right on the point . . . these points are actually ‘holes’ . . . in fact, as I understand it, the08/01/2024, 14:20Needling JIng well points – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/needling-jing-well-points/1556/print3/4
term ‘point’ is not a translation at all but rather ‘hole’ is!! If location is off, we are jamming a needle through the
skin but not into a hole. That may also be an issue. Just some thoughts.
Adina_Kletzel #7April 27, 2021, 6:13am
Thanks Daniel. That helps.
Can you just tell me though – do you feel that you are right under the skin or quite a bit deeper than that? And do
you insert flat or are you pressing downward somewhat first and then going flat?
Thanks for your help!
Daniel #8April 27, 2021, 3:34pm
Hi Adina – no, I definitely do not needle downward and ‘then’ go flat . . . I go in quite flat from the very beginning
– maybe 10 degree angle from the skin. Try that, with no hesitation, good point location, be quick and assertive . . .
99% of needles – even 0.35×40 in my case . . . say in without problem for a full 20 minutes
Adina_Kletzel #9April 27, 2021, 8:25pm
OK I will try it. Thanks for the gentle push!
I will keep you posted.
One last question – do you turn the needle clockwise or counterclockwise (depending on whether you are tonifying
or draining) for the jing well points?
Daniel #10April 27, 2021, 11:25pm
hmmm . . . I think it depends on the patient . . . often I don’t – just the insertion in the right direction (with flow or
against) I felt in the moment was enough stimulation! But sometimes, I do give a quick twist with the insertion –
strictly speaking we certainly should! – I think I just tend to be a bit inconsistent on that matter now that I think
about it . . . thanks for bringing that up – I need to pay more attention to that!
Daniel #11April 28, 2021, 2:10pm
Adina – let us know you your jingwell needling journey goes!! I think you raise great questions here that I suspect
challenge many Sa’Am practitioners – especially in the ‘sensitive West’ . . .08/01/2024, 14:20Needling JIng well points – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/needling-jing-well-points/1556/print4/4
( I remember years ago, I think it was Jake Fratkin – wrote an article comparing TCM to Japanese Acupuncture as
Stir Fry to Sushi . . . a reference to a spectrum of flash and fire . . . to . . . . fine subtlety . . . . and on that spectrum,
Korean culture is even more flash and fire . . . consider the heat of Kimchi for example . . . I have experienced
Japanese, Chinese and Korean moxibustion and all three are true to this spectrum . . . with Korean being the most
intense, hottest – almost unbearable!!!