sweiz: March 10, 2020, 9:56pm
I was having a conversation this past weekend with George, a fellow Saam-o-phile, about the difficulty in
determining Liv+ or SJ + treatment based on the question about what kind of environment they crave. I often ask
about whether they feel that a balmy, shady, private place would sooth their difficulty or a bright warm,
scintillating place. George pointed out that sometimes Liver excess pathology shows up with people wanting to
isolate in their cave but that this is a pathological impulse brought on by the liver excess. At the same time, a San
Jiao excess pattern can manifest with people wanting solitude and green forests.
This week I had two back-to-back patients that exemplified this so clearly. One is a woman who is wanting to
isolate along with her cancer diagnosis and chemo-therapy complete hair loss. This is also combined with fear of
the C-19 virus. Is she wanting to be inside and alone because she feels so exposed or because she was liver excess?
I asked myself this and what came to me was a strong sense that I wanted to bring light to her. I decided to follow
this impulse and treated SJ + and she expressed that it was very healing for her. The next patient also craved
solitude and easily felt anxious going out of her home or home town. My impulse was to nourish and hold. She has
vivid sparkling eyes and I could just feel her openness. For her Liv + felt calming and grounding.
My question is about how much to follow this felt sense of what you want to bring to someone. Does anyone use
this for diagnosis? What is your experience?
Daniel: March 10, 2020, 11:52pm
Hi Sharon. I don t really have an answer but do concur that I am finding myself often very challenged to make that
choice on the Liv-SJ axis. I had a patient recently who noted that she has a really tough time making adjustments in
the Spring and wanting to stay inside more. After talking a while, I determined this was primarily around the issues
of her winter habituation to darkness and a slow adaptation to the expanding light outside. But THEN! I felt a
clinical paralysis . . . . . do I supplement Liver, thus subsidising her winter-adapted comfort in the dark so she could
feel more confident to stride out into the Spring light OR do I supplement SJ, essentially bringing her into the light
and out of the dark through the treatment? I will note that once months ago, I had given her a Liver
supplementation treatment and she returned two weeks later reporting that the treatment had sent her into a week
long state of depression she had never ever experienced before in her life!! So, this time, I supplemented SJ. She
comes in later this week. I will find out how things unfolded after that treatment. But yes, I often do find that
Liver-SJ decision a challenging one.
Shanlarson: March 11, 2020, 4:02am
24/01/2024, 11:41Liver or San Jiao – Sa’am Clinical Questions – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/liver-or-san-jiao/944/print2/7
I find this pair can be tricky and the question of being on a bright sunny beach or a calm quiet forest on a warm day
doesn t always provide a clear path. I just treated a patient today who is very SJ excess. She has very bright eyes,
light sensitivity, lots of attention to detail, some red acne on her face and cold feet. Her answer to this question is
she wants to be on a warm sunny beach. I first thought it was about the warmth aspect, she always feels cold all
over, but she says she is noticeably happier and energetic when the sun is out. She always wants to be in the sun.
Today I did LIV+ and HT+ and she really settled.
I still do ask this question often but I find I give it medium weight It s like what I m trying to learn to do from the
GMP (which I am sure you quite effortlessly) is not jump from one symptom to diagnosis but rather see the whole
picture.
Shanlarson: March 11, 2020, 5:14am
I realize after rereading your post I really wasn t answering your question.
My question is about how much to follow this felt sense of what you want to bring to someone. Does anyone use
this for diagnosis? What is your experience?
I think for me at this stage in my practice I m really working on being present in my clinic day. I know when my
analytical mind takes over I overthink it. During these moments Simple answers can be so seductive. They want to
be on a warm beach oh ok I ll do SJ+. Which could be very wrong. I have moments when I m in the zone and
present and I can tap into a sense of what I want to bring to them but I think I m still trying to cultivate this. If I
feel pressure of time, overthinking or allow insecure thoughts in my head like I need to figure out what to do
then I think the idea of sensing what I want to bring to them gets muddled. In these times I need to depend more on
all the other signs I see and weigh them all together. So I think my answer is yes but it s when I feel really present
with patient and I m still practicing this.
George_Mandler: March 11, 2020, 1:59pm
sweiz:
I asked myself this and what came to me was a strong sense that I wanted to bring light to her. I decided to
follow this impulse and treated SJ + and she expressed that it was very healing for her.
This.
When I feel good in my vehicle body I find I am often asking what does this patient need? and getting answers
when there are channel choices. There is a yes confidence I feel with the Sa am that I did not necessarily get so
clearly with other styles. To answer your question I often ask for help and place my hand on a patient and see if I
get some guidance while my mind is contemplating the Sa am archetypes. It is so nice when what I sense feels
right, there is a knowing it will work for the patient.
I just wish it would happen much more often.24/01/2024, 11:41Liver or San Jiao – Sa’am Clinical Questions – Qiological Community
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KristinWisgirda: March 11, 2020, 6:25pm
sweiz:
My question is about how much to follow this felt sense of what you want to bring to someone.
Asking what quality the patient needs or noticing if an invoked quality brings ease and relaxation to the room are
both great ways shift away from the intellectual gymnastics that happens as you are trying to figure out what to do.
Too often I let the static of busyness interfere with the functioning of my instrument that is tuned to this resonance.
Tending to this instrument is a big part of growing as a practitioner.
Once you get the big OK on a treatment, it is good to then decide if treating that way would help the patient s chief
complaint. Many patients are deficient in multiple qualities on any given day. Their priorities for themselves may
be different from ours, as well. Another consideration is deciding when channel is more important than quality. I
have had patients who benefited from the channel getting treated but didn t show signs of needing a big injection
of the channel quality, though there weren t contraindications to treating that channel.
althieme: March 14, 2020, 5:39pm
Sharon, I too have found that coming back to Sa am treatments after a 3 month hiatus, that the patterns have
opened up to me and that I sense my way into what is occurring for the patient after using my analytical abilities
first as much as possible. The last few days I have experienced this with some SJ/LV cases. One case was very
evident where the woman blurted out how much she loved the forest vs a sunny beach. Another was not as evident
as his eyes were more on the sparkling side but he preferred the dark cool forest but we got the best results with SJ
points for the LV excess. Basic TCM points and electro had previously had no results for this patients back pain.24/01/2024, 11:41Liver or San Jiao – Sa’am Clinical Questions – Qiological Community
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Daniel: March 16, 2020, 3:31am
althieme:
his eyes were more on the sparkling side but he preferred the dark cool forest but we got the best results with
SJ points for the LV excess
These things fascinate and perplex me . . . sparkling eyes and loving dark cool places – is classic SJ excess and yet
treating him as Liver Excess with SJ supplementation is what brought results!! What is that about? How is this
explained in Sa Am??
KristinWisgirda: March 16, 2020, 12:40pm
Such mixed cases are good to for the practitioner to reflect upon especially as we are newbies. How sparkling were
those eyes? How does the preference for the cool dark make sense for this patient, because it is his habit rather than
feeling it to be protective? Were there other parts of the presentation pointing to Liver excess- dense body, bull in a
china shop physicality, etc?
My very Liver excess ex husband spent most of his free time in the cramped poorly lit basement though he loved
the beach too. People are complicated.
I would love to get better at reading eyes. Besides Sj and Liver excess eyes, there are Heart, GB and P excess eyes
too. Probably more. A fun online project in this time of social distancing will be to share eye pictures and discuss
qualities. I bet we can get Toby to chime in.
Tobydaly1: March 16, 2020, 6:33pm
24/01/2024, 11:41Liver or San Jiao – Sa’am Clinical Questions – Qiological Community
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KristinWisgirda #11March 16, 2020, 7:03pm
The image suggests GB excess. The fierceness of the brow informs that impression.
Just looking at the eyes by themselves, there is Liver excess dullness. I m pretty sure I know who this is. Anybody
else want to guess?
How about this guy:
Daniel: March 16, 2020, 7:44pm
KristinWisgirda:
Anybody else want to guess?
Tyson?
post must be at least 35 characters !!!24/01/2024, 11:41Liver or San Jiao – Sa’am Clinical Questions – Qiological Community
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Tobydaly1: March 16, 2020, 8:16pm
Might just be the photo, but his right eye looks open and clear and his left eye looks shielded and dull.
KristinWisgirda #14March 16, 2020, 9:07pm
The guy in the red shirt was loquacious, having insomnia and overheating. He responded really well to UB+.
Daniel: March 16, 2020, 9:50pm
Interesting – I was going to say he was very asymmetrical and suggest Kidney +
(but was not sure if it was the lighting effect)
KristinWisgirda #16March 16, 2020, 11:01pm
The asymmetry is more a lighting effect but I am happy to hear other s impressions. Feel free to post other pictures
to discuss and I will do the same.
Sorry this pic became a little blurry when I edited out most of her face. It is interesting to just isolate the eyes so
that the rest of the person s expression doesn t interfere.
Adina_Kletzel: March 18, 2020, 9:58pm
24/01/2024, 11:41Liver or San Jiao – Sa’am Clinical Questions – Qiological Community
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KristinWisgirda:
How about this guy:
He looks like he has a softness about him and a vulnerability. He looks like he is a bit too open and not protected
enough. I would think Liv + may help him.
Adina_Kletzel: March 18, 2020, 9:54pm
Her eyes look piercing and that she knows exactly what she wants. She looks like she may be a bit controlling and
somewhat forceful. She may benefit also from Liv + and perhaps PC +.
KristinWisgirda: March 19, 2020, 12:38am
The dark eyed lady is definitely SJ excess. I can see the forceful quality Adina mentions too. She might just be
super confident. She was the first African American woman who went into space. This is Mae Jemison- astronaut,
physician, Stanford/Cornell grad.