VERY Powerful PC-GB Experience

Daniel: August 16, 2019, 4:46pm
I just had the most remarkably powerful personal experience with Sa’Am. I will keep the case details very simple
because I just really want to describe the experience here.
For the past couple of weeks, I have been going through a very painful right leg pain (likely ‘sciatica’ in a
conventional medical sense) . . . the core pain has been in the lower leg, in the Gall Bladder 37 area with varying
degrees of radiation up and down the lateral aspect of the right leg and a pain in the right low back / hip area that at
times feels sacro-iliac but more often PSIS centered. It has been very seriously debilitating. And while treatments
and stretches have brought some degree of temporary relief, nothing I have done has helped all that much.
Several days ago, I decided to bring Sa’Am into the picture. While I can most certainly locate the core issue here as
being within the GB-PC combination, the classes and qiological-discussions have had me a little nervous to go
there first.
And I could certainly also easily justify Small Intestine and Stomach supplementation strategies within my top
three (the former pertaining to pain and blood stasis, the latter pertaining to accumulation of interior dampness). So
my first treatment was a Small Intestine supplementation (on the left). It was quite powerful actually while the
treatment was in – I could feel a lot of ‘action’ in my lower abdomen and right low back but it had no lasting impact
on my ‘main complaint’ (although I feel it benefited me in other ways). So my second treatment was a Stomach
supplementation (on the left) which again, was quite powerful in other ways. But again, no lasting impact on my
leg pain. (and interestingly, I also have a Stomach channel ‘leg issue’ on my left leg and this treatment temporarily
rendered that ‘issue’ bilateral!!! and generated some of the same on my right leg!!)
So finally, yesterday, I performed a left-sided Pericardium channel supplementation (PC 9, Liv 1 tonified, Kid 10,
PC 3 dispersed). For about 5 minutes, the pain at the right GB-37 area epicenter intensified to such an unbearable
degree, I almost pulled the treatment out. But then, suddenly, it was literally like a damn released and over the
course of a few minutes, I could feel the leg pain dissipating followed by a powerfully blissful sensation of oxygen
rushing in and aerating the entire right Gall Bladder channel – the GB 37 area, the IT band, the hip and psis, the GB
41 area and fourth toe, the lateral aspect of my head. I was also experiencing a very profound relaxing and
contracting in my entire lower abdomen (I have chronic and often severe issues with abdominal bloating). Within
about 15 minutes, all tension, pain on the entire right lateral aspect of my body from head to toe had completely
dissipated. The entire zone felt as light as air. And when I flexed my right leg, knee, hip, ankle up and down, there
was no hesitation, no grimace, no restriction – it was all as light and free as possible. After about 15 minutes, tears
started to flow out the outer canthus of my right eye (GB 1)!.
I have since performed this treatment a second time with very much the same experience from head to toe.
I will add that throughout both treatments, interestingly, I felt no action whatsoever on my left side. ALL of this
powerful action was experienced exclusively on my right side.
It’s just so remarkable that four needles on the contralateral side of the body can generate such an impressive and
powerful result and so clearly validates beyond ways any ‘scientific study’ could even begin to touch upon, the
phenomena of acupuncture channels, channel relationships and point combination dynamics.30/01/2024, 12:01VERY Powerful PC-GB Experience – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
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I am humbled beyond measure by such things.

Jeffrey: August 16, 2019, 7:33pm
Thanks for that Daniel.
Awesome
Kind regards,
Jeffrey

George_Mandler: August 18, 2019, 2:00am
Daniel:
I have since performed this treatment a second time with very much the same experience from head to toe.
By same experience do you mean you felt the pain intensified the first 5 minutes on the 2nd treatment as well? I
wonder what to make of that if it were a patient on the table and it was exceedingly worse right off the bat. WWTD
. What Would Toby Do?
Please let us know how long it holds.
It’s just so remarkable that four needles on the contralateral side of the body can generate such an impressive
and powerful result and so clearly validates beyond ways any ‘scientific study’ could even begin to touch upon,
the phenomena of acupuncture channels, channel relationships and point combination dynamics.
Yes the power of this amazing monastic system to quickly relieve suffering is remarkable. I have become sort of
numb to the power of Saam but in the beginning it was “holy cannoli I can’t believe it!”. Getting back to beginners
wonder would be a good thing for me.
Nail your diagnosis and trust this Saam system Toby is sharing. I find I have more energy after a day in clinic even
though I see more patients!

michaelmax: August 18, 2019, 12:38am
Daniel:
I am humbled beyond measure by such things.30/01/2024, 12:01VERY Powerful PC-GB Experience – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
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Me too. Thanks for sharing this @Daniel. It is extraordinary to see the “promise” of what acupuncture can do, so
quickly manifest.
George_Mandler:
Nail your diagnosis and trust this Saam system Toby is sharing. I find I have more energy after a day in clinic
even though I see more patients!
I’m with you @George_Mandler, I too feel like I’m doing better work. More concise and clear work. And I’m
EXPECTING results in a way that I would have dared a year or so ago. Plus, like you… more energy at the end of
the day.

KristinWisgirda: August 18, 2019, 10:32pm
Daniel:
For about 5 minutes, the pain at the right GB-37 area epicenter intensified to such an unbearable degree,
Thanks for sharing this experience. If your were my patient I would have taken the needles out. Now I’ll be
listening to something bigger and wider than an aggravation of pain before doing so.

michaelmax: August 20, 2019, 11:12pm
KristinWisgirda:
Thanks for sharing this experience. If your were my patient I would have taken the needles out. Now I’ll be
listening to something bigger and wider than an aggravation of pain before doing so.
I’ve noticed as well, sometimes there is some turbulence in the beginning. Knowing what is turbulence and what is
faulty treatment… this is where we really go to school.
I’m curious… besides watching the face, what other markers do people have?
I use the pulse. And listen to the feeling in the room. On a good day I can feel the yang rhythm (cranial wave) or
the fluid tide (another part of the EV training)
As I’ve mentioned, tongue often changes.
Sometimes they will have a particular symptom, like ear stuffiness or ringing that will quickly change. I’ll take
those as indications I’m on the right track even if other things are not so smooth.30/01/2024, 12:01VERY Powerful PC-GB Experience – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
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But at the end of the day… it’s often a judgement call. I’ve noticed that sometime Toby will “give it five minutes”
and then come back and check on the patient. I’ve done that too, and it’s helpful for clarification.
And generally speaking, if I’ve put in needles and people are jabbering away full speed 3 minutes after I’m done.
Then I will pull those and do something else. For me the continual talking is a pretty clear signal I’m not on it. It
might not be wrong, but it certainly is not right.

Jeffrey: August 21, 2019, 12:50pm
michaelmax:
And generally speaking, if I’ve put in needles and people are jabbering away full speed 3 minutes after I’m
done. Then I will pull those and do something else. For me the continual talking is a pretty clear signal I’m not
on it. It might not be wrong, but it certainly is not right.
I would really like to hear others experience/ opinion on this one!
Thanks Michael

Daniel: August 21, 2019, 1:23pm
This is a great discussion.
One of my favourite all-time hallmarks of ‘correct’ or ‘on the money’ treatment is the onset of borborygmus
minutes after (sometimes even seconds) the treatment is in place. I have observed this over and over again (that is
mainly practicing within a “Kiiko Matsumoto context”). I even wrote a blog about it some years ago (in brief, to
me, it reflects clearly, in patients who are in chronic sympathetic dominance – MOST of us – a disarming of that
state and a resurgence of a parasympathetic state) . . . .here’s the blog I wrote . . . .
http://www.danielschulman.ca/2012/06/06/the-yin-and-yang-of-borborygmus
of course, as Toby has noted – looking at the face is key
the late Yoshio Manaka noted many years ago that sudden itchiness of the nose indicates a good treatment – and I
observe that quite often actually!!
As for the early-on, brief, but often intense generation of pain somewhere in the body – I have learned to trust that
over the years . . . I always say to the patient . . . “if you are ok with it, I’d like to leave things in for five minutes to
see if it passes , if it doesn’t, I will take the needles out, but usually, it passes in a few minutes”. My interpretation
of this kind of thing is as follows . . . . fundamentally, we are in the business of restoring / rectifying flow . . . flow
of Qi, Blood, Lymph, Nerve Impulses, Emotions, Body fluids . . . we are flow doctors essentially. Early onset of
some kind of pain after treatment is in suggests to me that flow (of something) has encountered a block and is
generating the pain – but maybe if we wait a few minutes, the momentum of the treatment will overcome that block
(what we want after all!!) and the pain will dissipate . . . and nine times out of ten, it does – within a few minutes.
An expression I often use to help the patient relate . . . “you have to break an egg to make an omelette”.30/01/2024, 12:01VERY Powerful PC-GB Experience – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
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KristinWisgirda: August 21, 2019, 2:51pm
Daniel:
of course, as Toby has noted – looking at the face is key
Discussing this subject with T- again- even if a treatment seems to be going sideways, changes on the face are the
indicators he trusts the most for determining treatment effect.
This is a hard one for me because I can so fixated on the status of the chief complaint. I intend to make watching
the face before during and after treatment a priority.

Jeffrey: August 21, 2019, 3:47pm
KristinWisgirda:
of course, as Toby has noted – looking at the face is key
That said, if the patient is deeply resting and or sleeping, does that have more weight than facial change Kristin? Is
it the same as ?

Ryan_Gallagher: August 21, 2019, 5:30pm
It’s great to read about people’s favored methods of getting feedback. When I was in school, Bob Quinn, while
teaching various Japanese styles (including Shakuju), would recommend palpating certain reference zones for
tenderness and/or tightness—places like GB21; SP9/LR8/LR7 zone; SP4/KD2 zone; lower ST channel. You
palpate, write down any place that’s tender/tight, and then palpate again once the needles are in.
I’ve been trying to read the complexion, but it doesn’t come very naturally to me. I’ve been mainly relying on
pulse quality and the degree of ease the patient seems to be experiencing during Sa’am treatments (which includes
how they’re breathing, whether their eyes are closed, whether they’re becoming quiet and inward, etc.).

George_Mandler: August 22, 2019, 2:36am
I have trouble with the facial complexion change. I can probably see it if it is really obvious, but am not clued into
the subtleties at this time.30/01/2024, 12:01VERY Powerful PC-GB Experience – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
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I look at the tongues and definitely cannot see the before/after that typhoid Michael describes.
For me the pulse, abdominal and physical musculoskeletal changes are my confirmations that treatment is positive.
As well as a chilled out patient within 5 minutes.

amyjenner: August 22, 2019, 12:31am
This might sound a little weird, but I “see” the changes in the face almost like you see heat waves rising off the
blacktop. it is almost a little off the face actually. The person gets a quiet like they are trying to listen to a very faint
tune arising inside of them.

Jeffrey: August 22, 2019, 10:38pm
@amyjenner [quote=“amyjenner, post:13, topic:497, full:true”]
This might sound a little weird, but I “see” the changes in the face almost like you see heat waves rising off the
blacktop. it is almost a little off the face actually. The person gets a quiet like they are trying to listen to a very faint
tune arising inside of them.
[/quote]I’m working on thatn’ Amy. I like your metaphor, it helps.
Thanks

michaelmax: August 24, 2019, 4:09am
Daniel:
the late Yoshio Manaka noted many years ago that sudden itchiness of the nose indicates a good treatment – and
I observe that quite often actually!!
@Daniel Yes, I have noted this as well, it happens more often than not. But I’d not associated it with a treatment
going in the right direction.
The borborygmus is always a welcome sign for me. But the nose itching… dang… how could I have missed it.
Now I’m wondering about other little things that that patients are surprised and annoyed about that might be signs
that we are moving in the right direction.
And just yesterday I had someone whose pain was worsened, but I did stay the course with it. Today she was
markedly better, even though she left the clinic feeling worse than when she came in. For some reason, and I can
not put my finger on it, it seemed like there was some tremendous stagnation that was being chipped away at.
Daniel:30/01/2024, 12:01VERY Powerful PC-GB Experience – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
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Early onset of some kind of pain after treatment is in suggests to me that flow (of something) has encountered a
block and is generating the pain – but maybe if we wait a few minutes, the momentum of the treatment will
overcome that block
Like Daniel says here. Usually I’d have pulled the needles and done something different, but something said say
the course. I wish I could point to what it was. But it was just a sense. This is bothersome for me, as I’m looking
for something more objective to corroborate my hunch. But sometimes, a hunch is all I have. I makes me nervous.

Jeffrey: August 24, 2019, 3:37pm
@michaelmax [quote=“michaelmax, post:15, topic:497”]
Like Daniel says here. Usually I’d have pulled the needles and done something different, but something said say
the course. I wish I could point to what it was. But it was just a sense. This is bothersome for me, as I’m looking
for something more objective to corroborate my hunch. But sometimes, a hunch is all I have. I makes me nervous.
[/quote]aint it the truth!? we want concreteness, so to speak in a dynamic situation, where often subtlety often
rules. Nuance is calling us to be more receptive all the time. Nobody said it was gunna be ez, and nobody is right.
keep on keepn’ on y’all

Daniel: August 24, 2019, 5:24pm
I think an issue here is that we are on a Qiological thread dedicated to Sa’Am and we are all learning that system
under the tutorship of Toby – and in that system, Toby has made clear that observing the face of the patient is the
main way to determine if treatment is working. Perhaps we should have another thread here on the Qiological Chat
Section devoted to ‘Acupuncture in General’?

Adina_Kletzel: August 24, 2019, 10:02pm
Another question to add to the mix is: are there any exceptions to the rule that the patient has to settle and quiet
down in order to determine whether the treatment choice was correct? I will give two case examples. One is a
patient who is cold, yang deficient, and listless so I tonifyed ht. The patient did not settle down and go to sleep but
rather started talking and looking bright eyed. Is it possible that the warm energy gave this patient new life and so
she finally has some energy to talk? Another example: A patient whose house burned down and has to make a lot of
immediate decisions about where to live etc… and is also very hot and gets angered easily so I tonified Bl (already
did PC a number of times). He did not feel settled and his breathing did not become even but her was able to
meditate and look at his options form a clearer perspective. So was tonify bl not a good choice because he didnt
fully settle and sink into a nice sleep or is gaining clarity enough? How far do we take the whole concept of
settling?30/01/2024, 12:01VERY Powerful PC-GB Experience – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
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michaelmax: August 25, 2019, 1:34am
Daniel:
Perhaps we should have another thread here on the Qiological Chat Section devoted to ‘Acupuncture in
General’?
Actually, this forum is for the discussion of anything from the podcast. There is already a category for discussing
podcast episodes. I’ve just created a new category for Acupuncture in General. Have at it!

michaelmax: August 25, 2019, 1:38am
Hi @Adina_Kletzel, yes Toby does empathize the face. And I think many of us feel a sense of comfort when a
patient falls into that deep sense of coherence. They like it. We like it. And it often is a good indication of a positive
and beneficial treatment.
But it is not always the case. And your two excellent examples point out how in certain circumstances patients can
have a healing experience without the quiet stillness portion.
As with pretty much everything else in Chinese medicine, it depends on the person and the situation.

KristinWisgirda: August 27, 2019, 5:38pm
Adina_Kletzel:
How far do we take the whole concept of settling?
I just got back from spending 3 days with Toby. It was a relief to see that most of his patients did not look beatific
when we left the room, though most were certainly were clearly in a deep place when we came back.
In my own clinic recently, a patient coming in for anxiety clearly did not settled at all during treatment. I thought –
fail . At the next visit she reported that she had much less anxiety for the whole week.
Judging when to stay with a treatment and when to change course seems to take experience. Every patient is going
to teach you about his/her individual signs of settling as well.
Tracking changes on the face are not my strong point either. Toby suggests that you just need to train yourself.
Note and write down your impressions from every patient, including colors and qualities. And have adequate
lighting.30/01/2024, 12:01VERY Powerful PC-GB Experience – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
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Jeffrey: August 27, 2019, 6:21pm
Wow! And thanks @KristinWisgirda, that’s both clarifying and throws a left handed monkey wrench into
“settling “. On the other hand it opens the field to further investigation / observation. Like you said, these nuances
take experience, and experience it will take.
Step step, slowly slowly…
Thanks

michaelmax: August 28, 2019, 3:49am
Indeed I know that I… and I suspect most of us… love when a patient “settles”
It feels good to us. It feels good to them. It is a powerful and easy to recognize signal that all is well.
But it is NOT always the case. And there are cases when “not settling” is a sign of distress. But not always.
This partly is why clinic is hard.
So… as we have discussed in other threads… what do you look for to know if the treatment is correct or not?
it’s a question worth being open to and exploring.

amyjenner: August 28, 2019, 10:10am
I have a px with a fairly recent parkinsons diagnosis. She is a nurse midwife and is only too aware of what it may
mean. She is a pretty stoic person and doesnt naturally share her travails with friends. When i put her needles in, i
take it as a good sign when she takes a big breath and starts to talk …it is something to do with the quality of her
meandering conversation, having someone to listen that she can relax into. Her speech becomes softer, less urgent
and pressing.

ronhubbs: August 28, 2019, 4:33pm
Thank you very much for sharing this. This is immensely clarifying.
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alisonmorgan: October 10, 2019, 5:23pm
I am listing this question here because it is PC/GB related:
As a follow up to discussion on supplementing GB, I feel very nervous to do so. Maybe this is wrong but with the
other pairs I think of them like a spectrum, esp when it comes to starting with possible dx’s due to channels
affected. For example, if someone has pain on the bladder channel then I will look closer into specific
characteristics of Heart or Bladder organ system involvement. I’ll ask about temperature, generally observe their
behavior (maybe chatty or not chatty), feel the speed of the pulse, and palapte the belly for clues as to which organ
system might be more appropriate to supplement to give them relief. But when it comes to Gb channel afflictions
(which I feel like I see a lot of, i.e. hip pain) I almost never supplement GB for fear of what it might manifest in.
But if I am going off personality, many of my patients more readily fit into PC excess then into GB excess. I think
of PC excess as being more rational, possible even overly mental, maybe a little meek.
Should I feel more confident in using GB, or is my hesitation warranted?
Thank you,
Alison

michaelmax: October 11, 2019, 3:08am
alisonmorgan:
But if I am going off personality, many of my patients more readily fit into PC excess then into GB excess. I
think of PC excess as being more rational, possible even overly mental, maybe a little meek.
Well, you’re right @alisonmorgan supplementing the GB usually will dial up some aggressive energy. But if your
patients are meek and PC excess, then boosting the GB is going to bring more energy to them in ways that will be
beneficial.
Might they get snippy and angry? Maybe. But here’s the thing… meek people are already angry, but they don’t
have the energy to express themselves when they’ve been trespassed upon. Add to some GB and they will start
standing for themselves.
Will that make others around them uncomfortable? Likely.
Might it make your patient uncomfortable? Maybe. But I have seen people have more a sense of relief when they
stand up for themselves.
Anyway, you can do the GB and unless the face turns red or purple you are probably ok. As with any treatment. if
it looks like it’s wrong. Catch it and change it.
That being said. People often get a bit antsy with +GB. That’s ok. And it can pay real benefits when they refuse to
let others walk all over them.
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KristinWisgirda: October 11, 2019, 1:53pm
alisonmorgan:
I almost never supplement GB for fear of what it might manifest in.
Being cautious with GB+ means you are Saaming Responsibly. Even if the patient needs it, bringing on the
thunderous wind of GB might cause problems if circumstances are already chaotic.
alisonmorgan:
But if I am going off personality, many of my patients more readily fit into PC excess then into GB excess. I
Most people turn up the Pericardium when they are in new social circumstances. I assume that patients are on best
behavior when they come to my office. I don’t know what is going on in their home life. For one very stooped
meek man, I’ve supplemented GB 3 or 4 times which has improved his back pain significantly. I’ve noticed that he
is standing up straighter but no other personality changes. I am thankful that his wife just told me that he is starting
to get irritable at home. Time to back off! I question potential GB+ patients about their comfort with being
assertive, but this man wasn’t very communicative so was hard to gauge.
michaelmax:
supplementing the GB usually will dial up some aggressive energy.
Of course, GB can be aggressive. I prefer to frame the positive qualities of GB as assertiveness and courage.
Recently I watched a documentary on Ruth Bader Ginsburg- “Notorious RBG”. She is now my standard for
perfectly balanced vigorous GB + P! She righteously stood up/stands up for gender equality issues but never with
anger. Her intelligent action made radical changes for us all. Thank you Ruth! She listened to her mother who said
“always be a lady”. Ruth took that to mean never get angry.

michaelmax: October 11, 2019, 3:14pm
KristinWisgirda:
Of course, GB can be aggressive. I prefer to frame the positive qualities of GB as assertiveness and courage.
Yes, and I also think about it as knowing clear boundaries and have the fire in the belly to hold them. Sometimes a
bit of force is needed if someone is trespassing.
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pattycakes: December 29, 2019, 9:49pm
KristinWisgirda:
Notorious RBG. She is now my standard for perfectly balanced vigorous GB + P!
What a perfect example! Toby should use it…
pattycakes #31December 29, 2019, 10:04pm
I’d have taken them out too! But it seems like this isn’t always right…
I had a regular patient (60F) who was there for anxiety and poor digestion. She was super thin and very sensitive,
about everything. I started using Sa’am with her, and it wasn’t easy, I felt like I was walking on eggshells.
On one of my last visits with her, I was really sure of my diagnosis. I put in the needles, and she became way more
anxious and needy. I decided to sit with her, and kept my hand on her abdomen, things I don’t normally do. I think
she was barely holding on to her composure the whole time, and I was definitely uneasy. But something said to
keep going.
I saw her a few days later, and she was really emphatic that it had been one of her best treatments ever! I was very
happy to hear that, and it really helped me know to trust myself more.
Toby made it seem like the patient should be obviously better shortly into the treatment, but it really isn’t so
clear… I have lots more to learn.

KristinWisgirda: December 30, 2019, 12:15am
pattycakes:
But something said to keep going.
It sounds like you were listening and treating her with your heart. So awesome that it led to a breakthrough for your
patient!
pattycakes:
Toby made it seem like the patient should be obviously better shortly into the treatment, but it really isn’t so
clear… I have lots more to learn.
Clinic is so, so very hard … Learning to trust your higher senses isn’t easy either.30/01/2024, 12:01VERY Powerful PC-GB Experience – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
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michaelmax: January 6, 2020, 1:43pm
pattycakes:
On one of my last visits with her, I was really sure of my diagnosis. I put in the needles, and she became way
more anxious and needy. I decided to sit with her, and kept my hand on her abdomen, things I don’t normally
do. I think she was barely holding on to her composure the whole time, and I was definitely uneasy. But
something said to keep going.
I saw her a few days later, and she was really emphatic that it had been one of her best treatments ever! I was
very happy to hear that, and it really helped me know to trust myself more.
HI @pattycakes
I had a similar experience. Thin, sensitive, bright-eyed SJ type, who is going through some difficult times with
sense of self. I did +LV on one side and +PC on the other.
It “seemed” right to me. And he started having some very intense and clear emotional response. It didn’t seem
wrong. My sense at the time was that he was having some much needed release. Like you, I stayed in the room. I
sometimes do some very gentle cranial work and basically held his ankles as lots of people that settling. It was a
pretty rough right. But again to me, it seemed in line with some of the internal landscape he has been working with.
I saw him again a few weeks later and he say “what did you do to me?” in an accusatory voice. He did not get
benefit from the treatment. It took a few days to get back to some sense of “normal.” It was not helpful for him.
But here’s the thing. It still did not seem wrong to me. Now perhaps I should have pulled the PC needles. But I
think sometimes there are deep underlying traumas, and these will kick back if approached too quickly. So I guess I
was wrong in that it was too much too fast. That makes sense. But I still he needs that LV shielding. But perhaps
without the insight and awareness of the PC. At least at this point.
One thing for sure, even thought I still think his jueyin needs help. I did not get that particular treatment right,
because if I did. He would have had a similar response to your patient— in that a few days better he would have
been dramatically better. He wasn’t.
We get to learn everyday.

Adina_Kletzel: January 7, 2020, 9:25pm
michaelmax:
But again to me, it seemed in line with some of the internal landscape he has been working with.30/01/2024, 12:01VERY Powerful PC-GB Experience – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
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This is the one aspect of Saam that I find challenging. Even if the symptoms match up and we SEE where the
imbalance is in our patient we really never know for sure how the treatment is going to turn out. In TCM or
Japanese style or Dr. Tang we can be a little more confident that we know what we are doing and more or less how
the treatment will affect the patient. But in Saam we really dont know for sure. The treatment is so strong that even
if all seems right it just may not have the positive affect we were hoping for because something didnt match up
exactly so.
I find myself way more apprehensive in doing a Saam treatment then in another method of acupuncture.
But at the same time when I dont use Saam I miss the depth, directness , and purity of a Saam treatment.

KristinWisgirda: January 7, 2020, 9:50pm
Adina_Kletzel:
at the same time when I dont use Saam I miss the depth, directness , and purity of a Saam treatment.
For sure. Because Saam is so clear and strong, patients response to treatment is really a gauge of how well you saw
them in your diagnosis. Treatment failures are a great opportunity to reflect on what you missed and hopefully
bring more acuity and understanding to the next patient encounter.

michaelmax: January 8, 2020, 2:35am
KristinWisgirda:
Treatment failures are a great opportunity to reflect on what you missed and hopefully bring more acuity and
understanding to the next patient encounter.
Yes indeed! And this is partly why the system can teach your quickly and without mercy.