michaelmax: May 21, 2019, 3:31pm
sometimes quality.
I’ve heard @Tobydaly1 talk about this for a year now. After this latest class in Tucson I think I’m finally starting
to get it.
Starting to get it that there might be something that goes counter to a person’s “constitutional” presentation, but for
the short term you have to set that aside and treat to remove some kind of obstruction. Then you can go back to
working on a more constitutional basis.
Simple stuff, but not easy to apply in the hurricane of clinic.
Sometimes channel, sometimes quality… worth remembering!
Adina_Kletzel: June 6, 2019, 6:07am
I hear Toby saying this in my head in clinic all of the time but I find that I most often dont have the confidence to
stray from the rules. I know this represents an imbalance in me (too dry perhaps??) but I need a push here. For
example, I have a client who is overweight with a thick white/yellow tongue coating, but mouth is dry and she is
constipated. Her skin is also dry. So it would SEEM like damp on the inside and dry on the outside which would
warrant St tonification. However, the dry mouth and constipation throw me off – maybe those are signs of dry on
the inside???
AND in quality she is SO LI excess – her mind is EVERYWHERE. She jumps from topic to topic, cant focus on
anything for too long and even though she does not work outside of the house she needs to keep herself busy with
projects.
SO… I would like to tonify SP to counterbalance the LI excess constitution but I am concerned about the damp
aspects of her physical body – being overweight and her thick wet tongue coating.
I would also like to note that at the last visit I tonified liver – due to some blood def. signs and the fact that she is
way overly tuned to external envir. in that she sees and hears everything and responds to everything without any
internal filter, and she was constipated for 6 days after the treatment… It is not 100% for sure that it is because of
the treatment (she also had a tooth infection) but it could be.
So how do I set my mind and confidence straight on this one?
michaelmax: June 6, 2019, 1:14pm
Great question @Adina_Kletzel!30/01/2024, 13:45Sometimes channel – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/sometimes-channel/240/print2/14
I run into this kind of thing as well. Their morphology says one thing, but their spirit/behavior says something else.
A couple of things—
1. How has she responded to the +ST treatment, which you would usually do for a person wet on the inside on
and dry on the outside?
Also remember that thirst can be due to excessive pathologic fluids that are blocking the clear nourishing
fluids from reaching the throat and mouth.
2. You can always test your +SP treatment on her. Do it. And if she settles and her facial color looks good, then
let it ride and see how it goes.
Finally, some extra taiyin Spleen fluid could help that dried out excess in the LI.
Great case. Keep us posted!
KristinWisgirda: June 6, 2019, 3:36pm
This issue is so central to practice and so anxiety producing at times. If only we could all get it right the first time!
Those 1 treatment miracle breakthroughs that happen now and again can distort our expectations.
Your patient sound multifaceted and quite complex. Acknowledging that to yourself and to your patient can take
the pressure off.
One question that is helpful is asking which pattern seems most related to the patient’s chief complaint today and
start from there.
So much of practice is giving it your best guess, making sure all the needles are placed well, and paying attention
to the outcomes.
michaelmax: June 9, 2019, 11:53pm
KristinWisgirda:
Those 1 treatment miracle breakthroughs that happen now and again can distort our expectations.
Spot on!
This does happen, and often enough that we expect it on a somewhat regular basis. But it can distort our vision
because for one person we powerfully dial it in, but with others we struggle.
It’s easy to become blinded by our own success.
KristinWisgirda #6June 10, 2019, 3:29pm30/01/2024, 13:45Sometimes channel – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/sometimes-channel/240/print3/14
michaelmax:
for one person we powerfully dial it in, but with others we struggle.
Dialing it in with correct diagnosis and correctly placed needles is only part of the equation. The other 2 factors
that are going to influence response are patient constitution and strength of the imbalance.
Even if we are impeccable, a patient with crappy constitution and strong imbalances is going to respond much
more slowly.
michaelmax: June 10, 2019, 4:54pm
Yes. This is such a poignant reminder that there is what we bring to the table, which is half of the equation. And
there is what the patient brings.
This is not to blame the patient, but rather to recognize the situation with clarity.
Adina_Kletzel: June 13, 2019, 10:44am
You say that one with a poor constitution and strong imbalances will respond much more slowly, but in your
experience if we keep at it will they eventually respond?
And furthermore, if someone is taking along time responding and comes in for treatment week after week and
month after month can we safely use Saam each week – keep on alternating between the different archetypes as per
their diagnosis? Or is the Saam method too strong to use on a weekly basis?
KristinWisgirda #9June 13, 2019, 5:40pm
My practice has been Saam focused for just the last 7-8 months. In my limited experience, I haven’t seen any
problems treating complex or poor constitution patients on a weekly basis.
From hearing Toby discuss cases from his own practice, treating weekly or even twice weekly for extended periods
sounds like part of his normal practice. Here are some considerations on treatment frequency from discussions with
Toby:
Don’t treat the same channel more than 3 times in a row.
For weaker patients, the strength of Saam treatments is more of a consideration. Toby advises not to repeat the
same treatment twice in a row because they are less likely to respond well. A weaker patient who is obviously
really UB excess and responds really well to H+ at one treatment, often will not respond well if you repeat the H+
treatment at the very next treatment. Treat another channel before returning back to H+. For weaker patients, it is
also more critically important to only treat one side as they are less likely to respond well to a bilateral treatment or
a 2 channel treatment. Treating weaker patients weekly with Saam won’t be a problem taking into account the30/01/2024, 13:45Sometimes channel – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/sometimes-channel/240/print4/14
above caveats.
My thought is that there is always the potential for individual ability to process treatment though none of my
patients have needed any special handling yet.
If the pathogen is really strong, or there is repeated exposure to a strong pathogen such as cold, treatment will be
slowed. See this thread for such a case involving cold:
https://forum.qiological.com/t/year-long-headache/72/26
Adina_Kletzel: June 13, 2019, 8:13pm
This is new information to me. Did he say why a weaker patient wouldnt respond to the same treatment twice in a
row? Logically I would think that reinforcing the same concept in a weaker body would be beneficial…
KristinWisgirda: June 14, 2019, 9:54am
Adina_Kletzel:
I would think that reinforcing the same concept in a weaker body would be beneficial…
Me too. Toby’s explains that even though we are mostly supplementing with treatment, integrating the
supplementation into the system requires the system to work. You don’t want to keep hammering them in one
direction. As well, these patients often need many, if not all channels supplemented. And supplementing one
channel that needs it will benefit all of the other channels.
My idea: Maybe it is something like asking a deconditioned person to lift weights. In the beginning he benefits
more from light and varied workouts rather than just repeatedly doing a single exercise like bicep curls.
At this point, I am just noting the clinical insight and seeing how useful it is in clinic.
KristinWisgirda: June 18, 2019, 11:44pm
KristinWisgirda:
Don’t treat the same channel more than 3 times in a row.
Listening to the latest Saam Crowdcast (How Not to Send Your Patient to the ER) and an experience with a patient
today have me rushing to correct this statement.
Toby says, *don’t treat the same channel more than twice in a row. In extreme cases he might treat the same30/01/2024, 13:45Sometimes channel – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/sometimes-channel/240/print5/14
channel three times in a row but this is rare.
A very SJ excess patient came in today reporting that her acne flared on the left side of her face only. Usually her
acne was very small colorless papules, but today she had multiple big whiteheads on the left side only. I had treated
her with Liv+ three times in a row. I can’t help but wonder if the acne was a result of this mistake.
michaelmax: June 19, 2019, 3:37am
Indeed @KristinWisgirda anytime we see something adverse it is a good idea to review what we’ve been doing
and to see if we can learn something.
I recently had a person in and boy oh boy did I want to treat their TB. But I checked my notes and saw I’d already
done that 3 times already. This reminds me that while I might be consistently seeing the basic constitution of a
patient, I still need to find other ways to work the situation.
I’m trying to think of how too much TB could bring the acne on your patient. I’m puzzled
KristinWisgirda: June 19, 2019, 1:21pm
SJ excess can manifest with heat above, cold below and Liver excess can manifest with coolness of the body,
especially the upper. So facial acne can be a manifestation of SJ excess especially if it is red.
The clear left sidedness of my patient’s acne makes me strongly consider a SJ/Liver imbalance, especially given
that is what we have been treating with 3 Liver supplementing sessions. This out break was not her typical small
red papules but instead big painful whiteheads. My working hypothesis is that the white heads are the result of too
much cool Liver densely congealing the fluids.
michaelmax: June 20, 2019, 9:29pm
KristinWisgirda:
This out break was not her typical small red papules but instead big painful whiteheads. My working
hypothesis is that the white heads are the result of too much cool Liver densely congealing the fluids.
That makes sense. One of the things I love about this system is that we can “see” a dynamic and then address it in a
targeted way, which then allows us to make sense of “what we saw” with “what we treated” and the “response” we
got.
ngmatthews: October 4, 2021, 5:15pm
30/01/2024, 13:45Sometimes channel – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/sometimes-channel/240/print6/14
This is super helpful. After reading your post I realize that I struggle with this every day in the clinic. My new
patients want RESULTS. They are testing acupuncture and testing me every day. I want results because it is good
for business. So, the balance between constitutional treatment and acute symptom treatment is always uppermost in
my mind. And when the two appear to be opposites, I tend to shy away from the channel and stick with the
underlying pattern.
For example, I recently saw a new patient who has numbness from feet to above the knees, involving all surfaces
of the leg. He can feel my touch, but has the sensation of numbness and cannot feel the floor when walking. He is
73 and has had the problem for 20+ years. All his labs are normal for B vitamins, blood sugar, rheumatoid factor
and such. There is no history of chemotherapy or other toxic exposure. This all started when he had rather radical
surgery for cancer in his 50s and had his whole scapula resected, along with half his liver. But now liver labs are
normal.
Anyway, he is a skinny, dry guy, always constipated, very dry skin, shy and retiring, somewhat intellectual,
strongly self-deprecating. So he appears to be a LI excess type with Pericardium and Kidney dynamics as well. He
has always been a thin person.
So in reading over my notes I saw that numbness is always dampness. And we need to work on the
pathomechanism of this through Saam. If he is a LI excess type he would need Spleen supplementation
constitutionally to make him more damp inside and out. However, with this symptom of numbness, sounds like we
need to reduce dampness in the system, so we need to either supplement LI or Stomach. I have been very hesitant
to tonify LI since he appears already to be that type in excess. I considered tonifying Stomach at the last treatment
but never thought to tonify LI. So, I think I did SI at the first treatment, just to be safe. I only have 4 sessions with
him before he leaves town, so I am hoping for the best. This week I think I’ll try tonifying LI.
Joanne_Tait: June 26, 2019, 4:05am
Hi Kristin,
I’m wondering if treatment of the same system is applicable if a patient is only coming in once per month? I am
thinking it’s probably a good idea to mix it up, but curious if this alters that rule at all? Especially if they present
the same way and the treatment was effective.
Thanks,
Joanne
KristinWisgirda: June 26, 2019, 1:02pm
Toby talks about repeating the same treatment at longer intervals, especially when that particular pathology
remains gross.
I’m always tempted to repeat effective treatments but having seen repetition not be helpful at times, even if
treatment is monthly, I will be hesitant to repeat the same treatment more than twice. Anyway, I hope to stay
curious as to what else might be going on to keep that gross pathology in place.30/01/2024, 13:45Sometimes channel – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/sometimes-channel/240/print7/14
ngmatthews: October 4, 2021, 5:15pm
I treat a lot of people once monthly. I find generally that it is best to look with fresh eyes at each visit. Even for
those who don’t have any serious pain or new problem, I might see them in a different light and try something new
that surprises both of us.
Even more challenging is my lady who comes every week. It gets difficult to not repeat things too close together.
But, as we know, treating any of the channels affects all of them so it is nice to know that Everything can be
supportive, if not amazing results. Of course, my goal is to get this lady to come less frequently. But she’s come for
23 years now, every week, and if she does not have some kind of acupuncture treatment she does really have an
increase in problems, if not through some decline in her health, then through doing a behavior that causes
problems, such as lifting something too heavy. However, after 23 years together, we have tried a LOT of different
styles of acupuncture, and she’d be happy with me going back to almost any one of them to get a break from Saam.
I must say that over these years her problems have become much fewer, she no longer has fibromyalgia, migraines,
allergies, irritable bowel syndrome, or any of the other little problems. (Just so you know we have been making
progress).Now we mostly work on keeping her orthopedically stable, and as she ages it becomes more important,
but she manages to get in car accidents about once a year, so that keeps me busy.
Donley: June 26, 2019, 10:47pm
ngmatthews:
she’d be happy with me going back to almost any one of them to get a break from Saam.
Does she not like the Sa’am treatments?
ngmatthews: October 4, 2021, 5:15pm
No, she does not mind them. It is just that with weekly treatments it seems that you can run out of Saam strategies
and might need to alternate to another approach from time to time. I tend to do Tung Style or Kiiko style then.
Tal_Carmel: July 22, 2019, 3:12pm
I’m really not an expert, but as I remember from a Q&A on SA’AM that was part of Sharon Weizenbaum’s
GMP2018, Toby said that +SP can help treat pathological fluids, not only moisten dryness. Because your patient is30/01/2024, 13:45Sometimes channel – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/sometimes-channel/240/print8/14
definetily LI excess type, and the numbness in his legs is dampness, I believe you should +SP in this case
Adina_Kletzel: July 22, 2019, 6:23pm
I have the same fears. I am still trying to figure out the extent to which sometimes channel and sometimes quality
goes. I have a patient whose back hurts all along the bladder channel. In the winter she is cold so I supplemented
Ht but there was no change. Now it is summer and she is not hot or cold, do I try and supplement Bl because of
channel? It seems so extreme since she is not so hot. What happens to all the cold from Bl when tonfiying Bl for
channel purposes in a person who is not so hot?
To those who can explain, I could use a deeper understanding of sometimes channel sometimes quality so I can feel
more comfortable with the sometimes channel choice. Thanks!
KristinWisgirda: July 22, 2019, 6:41pm
Adina_Kletzel:
I could use a deeper understanding of sometimes channel sometimes quality so I can feel more comfortable
with the sometimes channel choice.
Me too! Cases seem to be the best way to get a better feel but each patient is really an experiment.
Clinic is hard.
Adina_Kletzel: July 22, 2019, 7:48pm
Okay so here is the case
21 year old woman, very thin and small boned. Tight muscles – on stomach and back.
Beautiful, symmetrical, bright eyes, pale tongue with red tip and red dots on liv/gb area.
Always busy – works all day and then goes out with friends and with friends all weekend.
Intelligent, socially appropriate, pushes herself to excel. She is very cold in the winter and neither too hot or cold in
the summer.
Main complaint – pains all along the bladder channel of her back, pains along stomach and Gb meridians of her
legs and feet. Pains worsen with exertion and before period.
I tonified, liver, SI, PC,Ht, and SP. SI and liver brought the pains down from an 8 to a 4. BUt they go back up to an
8 the week before her period.
Since her pains are all along the bladder channel of her back I thought to supplement Bl since Ht + did not seem to
make a difference. I would only supplement Bl because of the channel – location of the pain in her back. Does this
seem like the right step to take?30/01/2024, 13:45Sometimes channel – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/sometimes-channel/240/print9/14
KristinWisgirda: July 22, 2019, 8:19pm
Being thin, small boned, pretty, and having pain that is worse before her period combined strongly weights SI+ as a
treatment. Hopefully you have been able to time that particular treatment before her period.
With the back pain, have you determined if it is strongest at a particular back shu level? If she can’t pinpoint a spot,
you can palpate. If a particular level lights up more than others, you can consider treating the corresponding
channel or its counterbalancer.
Adina_Kletzel:
Since her pains are all along the bladder channel of her back I thought to supplement Bl since Ht + did not
seem to make a difference. I would only supplement Bl because of the channel – location of the pain in her
back. Does this seem like the right step to take?
If there isn’t a strong reason to avoid pour ice cold water on her, UB+ is on the table.
Excuse me if you have heard this story before: In my earliest days of practicing Saam, a patient came in with low
back/hip pain on the UB channel. He walked with a cane. He was easily overheated and talked non stop about how
much he loved his family. The pain was worst at a particular spot was relieved when I pressed on the opposite side
H3. So I have him a H+ treatment (+K6 naughty newbie!) which he responded to splendidly, no need for the cane!
Another treatment or 2 and his pain was even better and he was exercising again. Then I got fancy and needled
back shu points- his pain reverted back to pre treatment levels. Yikes! Resuming the H+ treatment immediately
relieved his pain again. At his last visit, he told me that his nurse wife who he loved dearly told him that he was
never going to get better- Ice Cold!
Channel and qualities indeed!
Adina_Kletzel: July 22, 2019, 8:41pm
KristinWisgirda:
He was easily overheated and talked non stop about how much he loved his family.
Easily overheated and you gave him a H+ treatment and it helped?
Why not a UB+ treatment?
KristinWisgirda: July 22, 2019, 8:55pm
Because I was the newest of newbies, H3 was already in my tool belt for treating UB channel low back and leg
pain. That pressing on H3 relieved his pain instantly was a clear invitation to try out the full H+ treatment.
Today I probably would try UB+ first because is his Heart excess was a strong runner up after the pain for the
biggest thing in the room. I consider this case a gift from the heavens showing me the possibilities of channel and
qualities. Our patients are our greatest teachers!30/01/2024, 13:45Sometimes channel – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/sometimes-channel/240/print10/14
amyjenner: July 23, 2019, 12:58am
it may be my newbie naivete, but I have used BL for pain on the channel recently in an older woman who is not
especially warm. But it has been super hot weather here in the last few days. She felt better…I felt safer using it
because of the heat nature is supplying at the moment. Is that correct thinking?
michaelmax: July 23, 2019, 1:51am
Actually, very few of here are newbies. We are for the most part experienced practitioners. And bring a wealth of
skill to this endeavor of helping people with acupuncture.
True we might be new to this particular system, but let’s not forget about the skill and experience that give us our
current perspective.
And this is what I love about your case here @amyjenner. You are taking your understanding of time,
environment, condition and trajectory and recognizing how the outer environment is an influence. Thanks for
sharing this insight into how you use all these aspects to inform your clinical decision for this patient.
Adina_Kletzel: July 23, 2019, 1:13pm
Did he get hotter after the treatment? Did he complain about an increase in body temp.?
If not, my question still remains – what happens to the heat of heart when using it to treat a channel issue and not
for its hot quality?
KristinWisgirda: July 23, 2019, 2:02pm
He didn’t complain of increased heat or any negative effects. It was November into December, which is cool to
cold here in New England.
Even though his body and demeanor were very warm, his response to repeated H+ treatments without overheating
showed that he really needed that extra heat. I was such a Saam newbie that I repeated that H+ 4 times in weekly
treatments!
Possible sources of deep lying cold- hip replacement surgery with metal parts on the side of pain and his wife’s icy
fear inducing prediction that he would never get better.30/01/2024, 13:45Sometimes channel – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/sometimes-channel/240/print11/14
For another possible response to treating local cold in a warm patient by H+, revisit the Eagle’s syndrome case
from St Louis class. He became temporarily hypersensitive to heat after one H+ treatment, even though his
symptom was better. Before repeating the H+ treatment, Toby supplemented Liver to build up some cool and
because it was appropriate for his situation.
Deceptively simple and sophisticated.
Alvaro: July 23, 2019, 4:45pm
Discerning true heat vs false heat can sometimes be a real puzzle for me especially since cold obstruction can
sometimes look like excess heat in the way the body responds to it. I have been thinking about this much more
lately since i have a new patient with Rheumatoid Arthritis whose skin feels very warm but symptoms appear
worse with cold. I will be posting his case in the next couple of days to get some suggestions.
In regards to your overheated patient with back pain; do you recall if his perspiration was normal, too much, or not
enough? I’m trying to understand why the H+ treatments helped him so much. Did you do +Kid 6 on opp side too?
KristinWisgirda: July 23, 2019, 6:58pm
K6 was needled ipsilateral to the pain.
At the time, I was using much lighter needle technique and smaller needles than I do now. This might have
tempered the double fire effect of H+.
Alvaro:
I’m trying to understand why the H+ treatments helped him so much.
That his UB channel pain benefited from so many H+ treatments without side effects shows that he really needed
double fire in his UB channel. Now the question is, how will we know which patients will benefit from adding the
quality that they would seem to need the least? Back to sometimes channel sometimes quality. The pain relief he
got from palpating H3 was how arrived at the H+ treatment.
Adina_Kletzel: July 23, 2019, 8:45pm
KristinWisgirda:
Deceptively simple and sophisticated.30/01/2024, 13:45Sometimes channel – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/sometimes-channel/240/print12/14
That certainly sums it up.
You gave me a lot to think about.
Thank-you
Jeffrey: August 18, 2019, 6:15pm
Bon jour tu le monde!
And wow!!! Thank everyone of you for all your contributions. And what a wonderful point Michael made, we may
be new to this style but we all have a lot of experience under our belts. It sounds like most of you have been
practicing for 15 to 20 or more years. It is wonderful to listen and communicate with such introspective
diagnosticians. We cannot have this dialogue without all that history. And thank you Kristen for explaining some of
the genesis of your practice/learning. What a great forum, and what a great thread.( I can’t believe I got through all
35 posts) certainly worth the read. We all benefit from everyone’s successes, failures and fixes.
I got so much out of this. Looking forward to sharing more.
You all rock!
Kind regards,
Jeffrey :pray:t4:
ronhubbs: August 28, 2019, 8:05pm
While it certainly may have been better to have supplemented another channel before returning to supplementing
the LV, I wouldn’t think that the acne (no matter how temporarily unpleasant for the px) is necessarily a bad thing.
It seems to me that treating the LV so extensively could certainly increase detoxification which could overwhelm
detox pathways. Of course, this is more of a holistic medicine based thinking, but I think it fits. Supplementing the
LV is certain to increase Phase I & II detoxification, which can overwhelm the excretion routes of the LI, thus
things will flush out through the skin.
So supplementing another appropriate channel likely would have supported some other key processes that in turn
likely would have avoided the acne, but you very likely still were successful in further improving the LV. So …
Maybe not so elegant, but still moving in the right direction.
KristinWisgirda: August 28, 2019, 10:43pm
ronhubbs:
It seems to me that treating the LV so extensively could certainly increase detoxification which could
overwhelm detox pathways. Of course, this is more of a holistic medicine based thinking, but I think it fits.
Supplementing the LV is certain to increase Phase I & II detoxification, which can overwhelm the excretion
routes of the LI, thus things will flush out through the skin.30/01/2024, 13:45Sometimes channel – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/sometimes-channel/240/print13/14
This is not Saam thinking and for sure will get you into trouble when working with this system. Other systems
concepts of “Liver” are not the same as the cool dense shielding forest of the Saam Liver.
ronhubbs:
I wouldn’t think that the acne (no matter how temporarily unpleasant for the px) is necessarily a bad thing.
This was clearly a sign that I pushed the treatment too far. I’m glad it wasn’t a more dramatic side effect.
ronhubbs:
Maybe not so elegant, but still moving in the right direction.
Not moving in the right direction in my opinion. This is such a powerful system, that mistreatment can be
dangerous: one student’s patient was sent to the ER because of mistreatment, another student who self-treated
ended up with weeks of panic attacks. For this reason, respecting the teachings and fine tuning skills is a patient
safety issue.
ronhubbs: August 29, 2019, 8:05pm
Thanks for the reply. I’ll take all of this into account.
michaelmax: August 30, 2019, 3:35am
ronhubbs:
It seems to me that treating the LV so extensively could certainly increase detoxification which could
overwhelm detox pathways. Of course, this is more of a holistic medicine based thinking, but I think it fits.
Supplementing the LV is certain to increase Phase I & II detoxification, which can overwhelm the excretion
routes of the LI, thus things will flush out through the skin.
Hi @ronhubbs, This may or may not be the case with “supplementing liver.” We are not thinking “liver” here in
conventional or functional medicine terms. I know that functional medicine is frequently used by “alternative”
practitioners these days and many of our patients see someone for that. But I think it takes us away from the
parameters (yin-yang, five phase, six jing) that this system evolved from. “Integrative” medicine is a popular thing
these days, but it does not help us learn or use Chinese medicine.
KristinWisgirda:30/01/2024, 13:45Sometimes channel – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/sometimes-channel/240/print14/14
This is not Saam thinking and for sure will get you into trouble when working with this system. Other systems
concepts of “Liver” are not the same as the cool dense shielding forest of the Saam Liver.
Agreed @KristinWisgirda, learning to think, perceive and treat through these simple and yet powerful lenses
from our Classical Chinese Medicine can open a whole world to us that can help us to better understand how to
help our patients. And I think we need to be very careful with not glueing on other things that don’t fit and
biohacking our way into some misconceptions that will prevent us from more fully understanding the particular
perspective.
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