George_Mandler: May 6, 2021, 12:44pm
So I had a crazy self-treatment adverse reaction a couple of weeks ago that I did not realize was an adverse reaction
until the next day and did not 100% convince myself of it until the next week. Boy is it hard to diagnose self!
My left SI joint was locked up. I was having low back pain mostly on left. I tried SI+, LI/SI+, PC+ over the course
of 10 days no change. I also had pain on the right erector medial to the scapula. So I thought about the HT/BL
dynamic. Decided sure I could always give more outward loving and tend toward cold so I will supplement right
HT+. That was the morning of Sat 23rd. I felt my nervous system relax immediately (but it may have been about
coming off the stress of free handing a .35 needle into HT9 and LR1. Ouch.) I left them in for about 20-25 minutes.
Got up and no change to the back pain. Didn t think much of it and went out into the garden for the day.
As the day progressed I started to get a strange sore throat. It was a sunny, dry 70 degree day so thought maybe I
was not hydrating enough even though I did drink fluids often. My throat felt sore, dry and sort of lumpy. It was
different than that oh no I am getting sick sore throat feeling as my energy felt OK. I was working with different
organic fertilizers so thought I must have inhaled some fungi or bacteria my body didn t like.
In the evening I went into the shower (gross factor warning!) and blew out and coughed up clots of crimson blood.
I had never seen blood like this out of me as it was crimson and clotty. I still had the sore throat although it was
relieved some by coughing up the clots.
I went to bed but woke up with the same sore throat. I could not understand what was going on. I sat in meditation
and it immediately hit me It was the HT+ supplementation! . Could it be? No way. I immediately supplemented
BL+ on the left side and within 5 minutes my sore throat was 90% better. After 15 minutes it was almost all gone
except for a smidge. I went back out in the garden( rain was forecast so wanted to get out there right away) and
coughed up one little blood clot and the sore throat was gone not to return.
I still sort of didn t believe it 100%. Could it have been that Saturday was dry and sunny and Sunday was cool and
wet? Before I posted I wanted to be 100% sure. Last Saturday 30th was a similar sunny/dry weather day to the 23rd
and I was in the garden most of the day. No Sa am treatment, no sore throat.
Crazy the power of Sa am.
Questions/Observations about the experience:
1. The HT+ supplementation stirred up some fire – maybe the effect would not have been so strong if it had
been a cool/wet day? For the record I did not feel extra hot at all that Saturday 23rd.
2. Trajectory of the BL channel leading to the heat in the nasal cavity is fascinating. It just made me think of
the parosmia case I have now with a cold damp patient.
3. It was almost as if the inappropriate HT+ treatment scorched the blood as evidenced by the crimson color.
Wow.
Any other thoughts are appreciated. Thanks for reading if you made it this far.
1 Like29/01/2024, 11:37Self-treatment Adverse Reaction – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/self-treatment-adverse-reaction/1562/print3/6
Adina_Kletzel: May 6, 2021, 9:45pm
Wow! Thank-you so much for posting. This is quite a lot to digest but so important to be aware of what Ht+ is
capable of.
My questions to you:
1. Looking back – what signs and symptoms do you see now that should have pointed you away from Ht+?
You clearly did not need Ht+ so how could you have seen that without having had to go through that
experience?
2. Did Bl+ help your back pain? What signs and symptoms do you have that point you toward Bl+? Did you
feel any other positive changes from Bl+?
Thanks!
George_Mandler: May 8, 2021, 7:13pm
Your questions are questions I asked myself Adina. Unfortunately I do not have much clarity to point and say aha
of course! . I find it hard to diagnose myself when things are subtle
Adina_Kletzel:
what signs and symptoms do you see now that should have pointed you away from Ht+? You clearly did not
need Ht+ so how could you have seen that without having had to go through that experience?
I have pondered this quite a bit and do not see anything apparent. I wonder if it were not a warm, sunny dry day if
the adverse response may not have been strong. Today is cool, cloudy and damp and another garden day – I did
have the thought of supplementing HT+this morning to experiment. If not for those Jing wells I might have run
that science experiment.
Adina_Kletzel:
Did Bl+ help your back pain?
Frustratingly, no. (but a really quiet and deep self care fascial lengthening/stretching session did)
Adina_Kletzel:
What signs and symptoms do you have that point you toward Bl+?
None that I can see except my southern Italian comes out when I play sports or watch the news, but that feels more
like a GB excess energy. I prefer warm and am not a fan of cool days like today. Pulse tends to be around 60-
65bpm. I was feeling rather hypo-functioning (tired, dull) in the days leading up to it which is why I supplement
HT+.29/01/2024, 11:37Self-treatment Adverse Reaction – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/self-treatment-adverse-reaction/1562/print4/6
Adina_Kletzel:
Did you feel any other positive changes from Bl+?
I only noticed the throat was better and no more blood except that one last clot.
Crazy really. But it shows how powerful Sa am can be with a treatment that is not needed.
Thank you for giving it some thought.
mariayung: May 15, 2021, 7:47pm
Wow. That is so interesting!
I wonder even if the weather was ok, by pushing a H+ direction when you didn t need it, if you will eventually
develop an issue?
Are you a LI+ type whereby heating you up, dried you further to cause a sore dry throat and coughing up blood?
Question: For the counterbalance treatment, is it on the opposite side of the original treatment?
George_Mandler: May 16, 2021, 1:58pm
Hi Maria,
Thank you for posting.
mariayung:
I wonder even if the weather was ok, by pushing a H+ direction when you didn t need it, if you will eventually
develop an issue?
The counterbalance supplementing BL+ on the opposite side 24 hours later corrected the imbalance.
mariayung:
Are you a LI+ type whereby heating you up, dried you further to cause a sore dry throat and coughing up
blood?
I do not understand this question. When you say LI+ do you mean LI excess? If so we all need to make sure to be
clear when we are talking about a supplementing treatment used with a + vs when we are talking about the paired
channel being excess.
I think you mean LI excess being dry causing heat is what you suggesting. Remember LI is dry + dry – slightly
cooling – so I wouldn t think the dryness leading to heat as we might in an herbal sense.
I would not characterize myself as LI excess and have found benefit in supplementing LI+.29/01/2024, 11:37Self-treatment Adverse Reaction – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
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mariayung:
Question: For the counterbalance treatment, is it on the opposite side of the original treatment?
Yes we supplement opposite side.
cassiopeia: May 27, 2021, 1:49am
Hi George, just to add a bit more confusion into the mix:
the HT+ inducing sore throat and nose bleed seems like a very clear cause and effect.
UB+ cleared up those problems, but didn t help with the back pain.
I wonder if the first UB+ just basically canceled the energy of the HT+, and returned you to neutral position;
perhaps one more UB+ would have helped with the back pain?
The only way to know is for you to get back pain again, do HT+, induce nosebleed, and try again. for the sake of
our knowledge : )
George_Mandler: June 4, 2021, 4:34pm
cassiopeia:
The only way to know is for you to get back pain again, do HT+, induce nosebleed, and try again. for the sake
of our knowledge : )
Yes a couple of weekends that followed we had the same dry sunny weather and I was considering donating my
body to science and give myself a HT+ supplementation.
But then I thought if I didn t get the sore throat and nose bleed we cannot say for sure it was the treatment, nor can
we say it was not. I feel I experienced enough to say that the HT+ supplementation was the cause and didn t really
want to self needle HT9 and LR1 again.
(The back pain has since resolved with some deep self myofascial release. The problem area seems to be my left
psoas so which channel would that be – KD, LR I would think)
lbdanzig: August 17, 2021, 4:52pm
29/01/2024, 11:37Self-treatment Adverse Reaction – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/self-treatment-adverse-reaction/1562/print6/6
I am always amazed when the wrong treatment is provided and then the counterbalancing is done, how much better
the patient does (sometimes) It seems like the dual is a powerful treatment. I wonder if the deep stretching helped
only because of this counterbalancing treatment. Did you feel emotionally more open, warmer in your social
encounters?
George_Mandler: August 22, 2021, 2:32pm
lbdanzig:
I wonder if the deep stretching helped only because of this counterbalancing treatment.
Self care with slow deep myofascial releasing is good medicine for me and I find even better than a Sa am
treatment. It just takes a lot longer than 4 needles where a self-diagnosis is often wrong.
lbdanzig:
Did you feel emotionally more open, warmer in your social encounters?
Linda are you suggesting I m a cold and recluse person? I certainly can be. When I take the time for self care I
do feel warmer and more connected. But I didn t notice that with the HT+ session.
mariayung: April 1, 2022, 5:57pm
I am curious about counterbalance treatments. When there is such strong negative reaction to a treatment, should
we consider doing the counter-balancing treatment more than once? What has your experience been like.
George_Mandler: April 4, 2022, 11:17pm
For an adverse reaction I have only done the paired channel once. I never heard of Toby saying to use it more than
1x and I have not found any reason to.