KristinWisgirda: May 13, 2019, 5:31pm
It is easy to think of supplementing Spleen in patients with the classic LI excess morphology- dry inside and out. A
couple of patients have shown me that overweight patients can at times benefit from the moistening milk of Mama
Spleen- cautiously. One obese patient with severe dry mouth from Sjogren’s (causing rapid weight loss) felt fluids
return to her mouth during a Spleen+ treatment.
Here’s another case: A 51 year old woman moderately overweight and with mildly dry skin. She has a history of
lots of abdominal surgeries- 3x csections, a tummy tuck, breast reduction, lumbar fusion, diastasis repair. She has
had MS for 2 decades but is currently asymptomatic. Symptoms respond well to acupuncture and adequate rest if
they do occur. She urinates every 2 hours but we are unsure if she goes this frequently because a history of
incontinence has made her fearful to wait longer.
She is a supermom who devotes her life to deeply nurturing her 3 girls. She tends to minimizes symptoms and
sugar coat situations, I suspect as a way of justifying the selfless way she puts other’s needs ahead of her own.
She current diet is very low carb combined with intermittent fasting but despite decades of very restrictive diets
and regular exercise, she continues to be moderately overweight. Her appetite isn’t great.
She has suffered from long term constipation. A modified zhi shi shao yao san has worked best for her but her
stools still tend to be dry and feel incomplete with skipped days when she travels which is often. Her rectus
muscles felt like a board and her left lower quadrant was full and tender. Her tongue coating was a thin
yellow/brown in the rear and the body was tense and contracted. She also has chronic left bunion pain and reduced
dorsiflexion of her big toe.
2 weeks ago I supplemented Spleen on the right. At the next visit, she reported a clear improvement in volume,
frequency and consistency of stools. She even had bowel movements on a day she travelled. Her tongue coat was
now light yellow instead of brown. No change in her toe pain. I repeated the Sp+ treatment.
Today she came in excited to report that she had the best week of bowel movements in a decade. She didn’t realize
how backed up she was until she really started to completely empty. She felt so much lighter, clearer and her belly
was visibly flatter. Her husband was noticing how energetic she was. Her tongue coat was thin and white and the
tongue body was relaxed. She also noticed that she was able to wait 3-4 hours before needing to urinate. She more
clearly had an appetite and even treated herself to a small amount of dessert for the first time in a decade of self-
denial.
AND her chin was red and her jawline was dotted with several large red papules! These appeared the day after her
last acupuncture treatment. She had never had acne in her life.
I supplemented LI on the right because more of her papules were on the left.
Need for future caution noted! Wondering how to proceed in the future: She has received Lung+, SI+, Liv+ and P+
treatments for other issues none of which changed her bowels at all. Maybe having the one Sp+ treatment primed
her system such that she might respond better to a Lung+ treatment without breaking out.30/01/2024, 13:51A case of constipation and supplementing Spleen – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/a-case-of-constipation-and-supplementing-spleen/217/print2/4
6 Likes
Need Help with a Diarrhea – Hot Cheek Seesaw
Pain, Itching, & Numbness, oh my
KristinWisgirda: June 6, 2019, 4:45pm
Here’s a follow up, 3 1/2 weeks after the last post. This patient is off all herbs and the 500mg of magnesium citrate
she was taking and is still having perfect, complete, daily bowel movements even when traveling. She is also
remarking that her energy remains consistently better and her urination is a normal frequency, whereas before she
needed to always know where a bathroom was. She is so delighted!
6 Likes
Jeffrey: August 17, 2019, 12:32am
So clearly symptoms trump body type and/or personality on this one (?) if I’m understanding you correctly. What
I’m really trying to get is that did you finally supplemented SP because you had an aha moment, by deductive
reasoning after other attempts to remedy the situation with no avail? Did you finally just say I’m going to moisten
the damp and see where it leads? Did you ever supplement ST?( for its descending movement? Or would that be
too drying on the inside?)
Great case study. I like the circuitous methodology. Only from this example would I think to go in that direction. If
you have any more clues to disseminate as to your daring attempt to moisten the damp without a descending
movement, please share. Obviously you had clinical success. If you have any more insights to share I would
appreciate it
Kind regards, (and good work)
Jeffrey
KristinWisgirda: August 18, 2019, 9:49pm
The dry stools+ persistent yellow/brown tongue coat in the rear (without other heat signs) + the hard dry feeling
abdominal muscles told me that she needed internal moistening. Lung+ might have been an option but he skin was
also somewhat dry and the stool dryness was so persistent double moist Spleen + made the most sense. St+ would
have dried her out internally so would not be helpful.
Joanne_Tait #5August 19, 2019, 4:15am30/01/2024, 13:51A case of constipation and supplementing Spleen – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/a-case-of-constipation-and-supplementing-spleen/217/print3/4
Hi Kristen,
I’m confused. Doesn’t tonifying the lung bring internal dampness out to the surface (for the dry heavy banker) and
the stomach (greasy skin, thin and dry inside) bring external dampness inward? Thanks for any clarification. This
spectrum has a tendency to trip me up. I thought about a recent case on this spectrum about a million times based
on the delineation of internal vs. external. I think it was a good exercise
Thanks, Joanne
Jeffrey: August 19, 2019, 4:59pm
Hi Joanne,
the way I understand it is that +LU would moisten the interior and slightly raise upwards(sx descend slightly) and
dry the exterior, opposite of +ST.
I concur, this requires an inverted view which is often tricky and makes me second guess myself regularly at best.
George_Mandler: August 19, 2019, 7:46pm
@Joanne_Tait – Yes to what @Jeffrey states. It can be quite confusing in the beginning! I was often mixing up
ST/LU when I started last fall, but treatments often still saw favorable results which shows that dry/wet
demarcation is dynamic.
I finally realized I was mixing LU/SP up because LU tonification uses SP3. I had several years chasing Kiiko with
a moxa stick and saw her use SP3 for the damp overweight type. My brain couldn’t switch that we use it for the
skinny dry inside type.
KristinWisgirda: August 20, 2019, 2:15pm
Thanks @Jeffrey and @George_Mandler for clarifying this. Making a cheat sheet helps. Soon you will have
memorable cases to solidify these qualities in your mind.
Joanne_Tait: August 20, 2019, 5:07pm
Hey guys, I’m still not clear. I have been using these pretty successfully in clinic, so there is definitely some wiggle
room it seems. Here’s my understanding:
Lung excess is dry on the exterior and damp on the interior, the banker archetype, yes? So to treat that, we would
tonify stomach? As I understand it, tonification of the Stomach brings the damp toward the exterior and dries the
interior, correct?30/01/2024, 13:51A case of constipation and supplementing Spleen – Sa’am Clinical Insights – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/a-case-of-constipation-and-supplementing-spleen/217/print4/4
Stomach excess is dry thin on the interior and greasy skin/damp on the exterior (Steve Buchemi was an example I
believe). So to treat that we tonify Lung which in turn brings the damp inside and dries the outside?
Is my thinking wrong?
Thanks!
Joanne_Tait: August 20, 2019, 5:12pm
I just rewatched the NY presentation on this too.