What to do about adverse effects arising after treatment

rmayroz: October 6, 2019, 6:58am
As I am so very new to this, I was wondering the following:
In the last week I’ve had 2 cases where while on the table things seemed to be going well, about an hour after
treatment things were really bad: one had sky-rocketing elevated BP, and the other developed flu-like symptoms
and started to have pelvic pain and spotting of dark/black blood (during ovulation) a symptom she’s never had
before.
In both cases the client couldn’t come back to the clinic. In my mind these dramatic turns of events are related to
treatment, but they didn’t happen on the table. So what do i do when they come back? do I do a corrective
treatment or do I treat what is presenting at the time. Also why would there be a delayed reaction like this?
Any input will be received with gratitude. Thank you

Jason: October 6, 2019, 1:26pm
why would there be a delayed reaction like this?
I was having problems like this during my first few weeks of experimentation. What seemed to help me get better
feedback on the table was using heavier needles with stronger stimulation. I still find that sometimes the reaction
only shows up at the end of treatment, rather than right away. On the other hand, I think my choices are steadily
less catastrophic.

michaelmax: October 6, 2019, 5:17pm
Hi @rmayroz >> insert spider meme saying “with great power comes great responsibility”
My suspicion is that there were some signs when they were on the table, but at the beginning we are less attuned to
catching them. Keep at it. I used to keep the lights in my clinic low, but now I leave them full on until all the
needles are in and I’m sure they are not having any issues. The full light allows me to better attend to the
complexion. I could not do that with the lights low.
Pulse can also be helpful. In my experience if it tightens or weakens, then the treatment is likely not quite right.
As to treating them next time. Do that seems right at that moment when you see them, as by then they have
‘metabolized’ the previous treatment and you’ll hopefully have a clearer sense of what is going on for them.
I had a patient recently say… “I was not sure acupuncture would do anything, but now I know it does because my
digestion got worse after I saw you.” Never fun to hear, but it is super helpful feedback as we now know what NOT
to do.05/01/2024, 12:21What to do about adverse effects arising after treatment – Bothersome Clinical Problems – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/what-to-do-about-adverse-effects-arising-after-treatment/660/print2/3

Jason: October 6, 2019, 7:24pm
I’m listening to one of the case review videos, and they touched on this issue. Toby mentioned that correct needle
placement is another factor in getting good feedback. He talks about making sure the needles look right before
leaving the room.

rmayroz: October 6, 2019, 8:31pm
Thank you all, this is very helpful.

KristinWisgirda: October 8, 2019, 12:30am
rmayroz:
So what do i do when they come back? do I do a corrective treatment or do I treat what is presenting at the time
Adverse reactions to treatments are clear information from the body that the patient very much needs the
counterbalancer supplemented. Time and time again, Toby says that treating the counterbalancer at the next
treatment is the appropriate response. The exception would be if something catastrophic happened in the mean
time.
michaelmax:
My suspicion is that there were some signs when they were on the table, but at the beginning we are less
attuned to catching them. Keep at it.
This is a possibility especially for new Saamsters. Reading patient reaction on the table is an art requiring lots of
presence and experience. Toby recommends using the face- expression and complexion as the primary guide.
Jason:
What seemed to help me get better feedback on the table was using heavier needles with stronger stimulation. I
still find that sometimes the reaction only shows up at the end of treatment, rather than right away. On the other
hand, I think my choices are steadily less catastrophic.
Good guidance. We control what we can with diagnosis and correct treatment, including technique. There will be
fewer wildcards if we are implementing the full system- including adequate needle gauge and clearly directed
needles- including jing wells.05/01/2024, 12:21What to do about adverse effects arising after treatment – Bothersome Clinical Problems – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/what-to-do-about-adverse-effects-arising-after-treatment/660/print3/3

rmayroz: October 8, 2019, 8:19am
Adverse reactions to treatments are clear information from the body that the patient very much needs the
counterbalancer supplemented.* Time and time again, Toby says that treating the counterbalancer at the next
treatment is the appropriate response. The exception would be if something catastrophic happened in the mean
time.
This is very helpful. Thank you!