Daniel: August 22, 2020, 11:53am
I find SI 2 is a real challenge to needle (in the SI supplementation treatment) – on the distal edge of the joint, as flat
as possible down towards the pinky tip. There is just skin and bones there – and the skin there is often very thick. I
even try to pinch up the skin a bit. I often feel like I have not really found ‘the hole’ and am needling right into
bone.
michaelmax: August 22, 2020, 2:46pm
Yes, this one is tricky. Some people have very little muscle here and like you I have really pinch up the skin to slide
a needle in. Other people, it’s not so bad.
The point I have trouble with is UB66. Much like SI2, not much meat there. I often feel like I’ve nicked the bone
when I need to be sliding alongside of it.
and needling SP2 is no picnic either
KristinWisgirda: August 22, 2020, 3:50pm
I’m with Michael on all 3. I have the least confidence in the quality of my technique on SI2 and SP2. I am always
sure that I get UB66 but none of my patients like that particular point.
Jing wells are better than these 3 any day.
Daniel: August 22, 2020, 4:11pm
yes!! SI 2 for me makes Jingwells a walk in the park! I agree with UB 66 and Sp 2 being tough too – but for me SI
2 is a level tougher. First there is the extra thick skin and then there is this horrible feeling I am ramming the needle
right along the bone!
michaelmax: August 22, 2020, 6:38pm
Funny isn’t it?
We usually think “those Jing Well points are brutal”
But really, it’s the Ying Sping points that are more difficult12/01/2024, 11:36What Are Your Least Favourite Sa’Am Points to Needle? – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/what-are-your-least-favourite-saam-points-to-needle/1237/print2/5
cassiopeia: August 22, 2020, 7:34pm
I wonder if I’m needling those points incorrectly, because they don’t seem that bad to me. We’re supposed to go
fairly transversely, right? for UB 66: when sedating, should I go almost 45 degrees INTO UB66 (black arrow), or
past UB66, toward the MTP joint (red arrow)? I’ve been doing the latter; there’s some flesh to work with, and I’ve
not had too many complaints.
same idea/question applies for the other two.
KristinWisgirda: August 22, 2020, 8:19pm
Toby’s basic teaching on needle technique is that you insert the needle at the traditional locations. @cassiopeia,
your red arrow looks like you are inserting at the MTP joint rather than distal to it, which is where the traditional
location of UB66 is. The point of insertion of the black arrow looks more accurate. The angle of the red arrow is
correct.
cassiopeia:12/01/2024, 11:36What Are Your Least Favourite Sa’Am Points to Needle? – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/what-are-your-least-favourite-saam-points-to-needle/1237/print3/5
We’re supposed to go fairly transversely, right?
Yes. The more transverse the better.
With these spring points, needling into the fleshier aspects works better and is more comfortable. Sometimes I
don’t get it quite right and am a little too much on the yang side of the hand/foot which brings the needle too close
to the bone. I like to needle patients’ hands where they rest which sometimes makes for awkward angles.
Daniel: August 23, 2020, 1:15pm
A couple of questions come to mind . . . . what gauge needles are you using? I am using 35 gauge mostly. I suspect
Kirstin is using 40! . . . . it is also possible your patient population is different, I do have some patients where SI 2
for example is much easier – they just have a little more flesh there and the skin is not so tough and I find the
needle slides in with ease. Sometimes, I think , we develop ‘skewed’ understandings and relationships because we
see a very particular sub-population of the population at large. Maybe you are using finer needles AND working
with a population skewed towards less tough skin and more flesh at SI 2?
cassiopeia: August 23, 2020, 5:37pm
KristinWisgirda:
your red arrow looks like you are inserting at the MTP joint rather than distal to it
my arrows are very crude; I do insert at the level of UB66 but then angle a bit laterally and proximally to go into
the fleshy part, level with the MTP. This seems more tolerable to patients than going straight into the cave of the
point.
Daniel:
what gauge needles are you using?
I started with Kingli .35mm for most points, but for these ying spring have been using 0.25-0.3mm, using 15mm-
30mm length seems better than 40mm. You’re probably right in that this makes a difference. I don’t imagine that
somehow I have more distally-fleshy patients than normal.
I ordered dongbang 0.4mm; eagerly awaiting their arrival.
KristinWisgirda #10August 23, 2020, 5:40pm12/01/2024, 11:36What Are Your Least Favourite Sa’Am Points to Needle? – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/what-are-your-least-favourite-saam-points-to-needle/1237/print4/5
I see lots of people with skinny hands and feet.
For the spring points I mostly use .35 and save the .40s for my more robust patients. I have seen Toby use the
.35×40 Myacu needles for every point including springs and wells.
ronhubbs: September 8, 2020, 12:43am
For SI2 and UB66 sedating, I generally pinch the skin up and needle into the divot left in tented up skin between
my pinched fingers. UB66 is more commonly felt immediately, but not always. SI2 they usually don’t feel much.
I’ll then guide the needle in slowly while twirling counterclockwise to get the fascia to grab and tell the patient to
tell me when they feel sensation. This usually works well for me.
Jason: October 15, 2020, 7:07pm
Any tips for needling UB 40 from the front? I’ve been bending the knee to the side, but not everyone has the
flexibility in their hips. I end up finding it by feel more then sight.
KristinWisgirda #13October 15, 2020, 9:58pm
I needle UB 40 with the leg in the final resting position and find it by feel. I don’t want the leg to have to move
with the needle in. I use 50mm needles or the MyAcu needles with the long handles which helps give me more
needle to work with when the knee is big.
amyjenner: October 23, 2020, 1:21pm
cassiopeia:
I ordered dongbang 0.4mm; eagerly awaiting their arrival.
Where did you order from? My last order, off Ebay, took about 8 weeks
cassiopeia: October 24, 2020, 1:02am
12/01/2024, 11:36What Are Your Least Favourite Sa’Am Points to Needle? – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/what-are-your-least-favourite-saam-points-to-needle/1237/print5/5
I also ordered from ebay, don’t remember which supplier. it came from Korea and took about 3 weeks.