KristinWisgirda: March 5, 2020, 12:33am
One day last week, I had a bad taste in my mouth, a headache and started having odd thoughts about hating my job.
All very odd. That night, symptoms persisted. I was despondent thinking about how I needed to find a new career
and dreaded going to work the next day. Even on the toughest clinic day, such thoughts have never entered my
head before. Crazy thoughts out of blue. I truly love my work.
That day was a totally normal day, except that I had 2 new patients in a row, both of whom were currently
undergoing chemo. The bad taste and headache started with the first patient, who has been on chemo for 5 years. I
also felt woozy once her needles went in and clearly better when I left the room. Everything got worse with the
second patient.
The next morning the strange mindset persisted but dissipated when I got to work.
I m currently in Ed Neal s Nei Jing course. Some of you may know about his teachings about how environmental
toxins and chemicals including drugs sequestered by the body can be released during acupuncture with bigger
gauge needles and with cupping. Finer gauge needles won t cause a release so many acupuncturist don t notice.
I believe my symptoms were caused by chemo and possibly other chemicals being released by my patients. This
isn t the first time I have had reactions, which usually manifest as an irritated throat and bad taste, but it was the
most dramatic. Particularly worrying were the mental changes.
Dr Neal recommends treating patients wearing a hazmat suit and using high performance air filters. This isn t a
pleasant idea but my experience last week was very concerning. Since taking his class I do open windows and use
my whole office fan as often as possible. And I make a point of getting some sweaty exercise every week, ideally
after every clinic day.
I don t know what the solution is but I feel compelled to let you fans of big needles know in case you have similar
experiences and chalked them up to something else.
3 Likes15/01/2024, 16:45Toxicity concerns for fans of big needles – Qiological Community
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bxiong89: March 5, 2020, 2:28am
omg Kristin, that is super interesting.
Thankyou for sharing. It reminds me of what Andrew Miles talks about how we have our own atmosphere around
the body, and that atmosphere can obviously be very toxic dependant on some of the therapies used in this case
Chemo
Do you think something like a LV supp treatment prior to patients could be useful to establish some of those
boundaries so we aren t taking in their atmospheric die off ?
I m treating alot of health practitioners at the moment, and alot seem to fit the pattern of SJ excess
KristinWisgirda: March 5, 2020, 11:33am
bxiong89:
Do you think something like a LV supp treatment prior to patients could be useful to establish some of those
boundaries so we aren t taking in their atmospheric die off ?
Adequate Liver resources to shield and reduce permeability can only help. LI + could be considered to help with
the toxicity, as appropriate for your body. I wrote about this hoping others might consider how they can improve
their work environment- air circulation and filtration, etc.
bxiong89:
I m treating alot of health practitioners at the moment, and alot seem to fit the pattern of SJ excess
I ve noticed this too. It s not just us acupuncturists. Our outward focus and desire to help can come with a tendency
to make our health and well being a lower priority. I am trying to change this tendency for myself and hope others
will be inspired to follow suit.
2 Likes15/01/2024, 16:45Toxicity concerns for fans of big needles – Qiological Community
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George_Mandler: March 5, 2020, 1:20pm
Wow what an experience Kristin. That is extreme.
I do take a quick far infrared sauna and shower many evenings after work. No doubt I pick up vibrational and
energetic stuff that is not mine. But I never thought of the thick vs thin needle causing more release. Interesting!
sweiz: March 5, 2020, 5:43pm
Gosh, I have such a hesitation with thinking about bad things coming out of people and getting into me. My own
thought on this is not to take measures to keep things out by using hazmat or liver + treatment etc. My thought
would be, if you are not feeling good after seeing someone, to treat the pattern you observed in yourself. If it did
come from patient releases of chemicals, then the treatment would help you process that exposure. The symptoms
you show also show you where your weakness is in terms of processing the outside world. The treatment could
only help you. The world is full of stuff that can get in. In fact, health could be seen as our ability to process the
outside world well rather than being armored against it. I see so many people who are doing chemo. I ve never
noticed a reaction. I d hate to start to feel that I need to protect myself from them in some way. I d rather treat the
pattern that shows up in me as a way to help my body be in this complex world.
I don t think I would tonify liver just to create boundary or Large Intestine to detoxify unless these showed up in
other ways. Our best defense is having all of our channels as functional as possible and adjusting the ones that
are most off. It makes me think of the John Chen recommendations for the corona virus one size fits all with
Huang Qi to protect and detox fire poison herbs to kill the virus. I so heartily disagree with this approach. Each
person s weakness is unique and each manifestation of an exposure is unique. This is the beauty of our medicine.
A SJ xs person may take things in too much but a liver xs doesn t vent things that do get in. Either one could have
difficulties. In other words, there is no magic tx to protect ourselves. To me, it is the essence of CM that we can see
and correct the main imbalance and that that is our protection. The nature of our work is that people come in with
stuff, whether it is bacterial, viral, psychic, chemical etc. I feel that the belief that closing oneself off, creating a
wall, on the one hand or needing to detox on the other, is a cause of illness itself. On the other hand, what we have
available to us in our medicine is a whole other way, which is to promote the function of the mechanism of our
being which, when functioning well protects and detoxes naturally.
I do agree that fresh air is always good to bring through. Energetically, a shower feels good after work but I don t
like the idea that I have to wash away people s toxic energy.
KristinWisgirda: March 5, 2020, 7:30pm
I m with you Sharon and am not suiting up to treat patients. Liv+ and LI+ were presented as possibilities not a
prescription.
However:15/01/2024, 16:45Toxicity concerns for fans of big needles – Qiological Community
https://forum.qiological.com/t/toxicity-concerns-for-fans-of-big-needles/938/print4/4
If you are drowning, the first step is to get your head out of the water. Until I grow gills, I m going to take steps to
make sure I can keep breathing. The point of my post is that those switching to thicker needles might be
experiencing reactivity similar to my own and not know where it is coming from. If so, modifying your
environment could be a big help. When I book patients with a known load, I ll keep the room open for airing
instead of immediately treating another patient. This is not about the patient being an other who has toxic
energy . It is more about managing waste products and turbidity that happens as part of life and practice, no
different than flushing the toilet or cleaning out an abscessed wound.
My first 2 offices were in windowless rooms in places where I couldn t control the climate and airflow. Thankfully
my office has windows and a whole unit fan.
I hope the discussion reminds fellow practitioners to care for their own health as much as they care for their
patients.
pattycakes: March 17, 2020, 12:58pm
I find air quality to be really important too. I used to receive acupuncture in a clinic that had a noticeable cross-
draft, as they kept their front and back doors open, and the treatment rooms were just partitioned – no door or
ceiling. I tend to dislike sitting in a draft, but on the table, with heat lamps, it felt really good to have plenty of fresh
air. Almost like being outdoors.
Also, I used to work in a clinic with really poor air circulation. It was a busy clinic in a large building, no windows
at all. The air quality sucked, and I routinely felt gross after seeing patients with strong pathogens. It was basically
impossible to air out a room. That same clinic is currently focusing on respiratory illness, which seems like a pretty
bad idea, considering how little air flow the place has.
I definitely vote for more air flow!